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Post by rob on May 30, 2013 10:49:31 GMT -5
Hey all! Sorry for the one-day delay, but we are happy now to present build 52! Changes include: * Add indication of current augment/storage level on the use button * Give new colors to protomod, storagespace and tankunlock items * Change victory region count to 10 * Add liquidate button to inventory menu * Add buy offers The big change this week is buy offers and liquidation. These allow players to buy and sell items to/from each other. There is no merchant or store run by Jetbolt. All transactions are player to player. If you want to buy an item, put in a buy offer for it. You specify type, level, quantity and price. If you don't have enough coins to afford the item, it's ok; the offer will hang around (but ignored) until you have enough cash. Likewise you need a free long-term slot to hold the item you'll buy, but if your storage fills the offer will be ignored until you free up a slot. You can sell (liquidate) an item for the current market price -- that is, the highest current buy offer. Remember that some offers will be ignored -- those where the buyer doesn't have enough cash or space. You can't liquidate items if there are no offers for it. You can currently sell to yourself; this may not be a good thing.  All transactions are taxed 10%. This is the same rate that eBay charges.  We'll experiment later with Apple-like levels (30%) and EVE-like levels (1%). Future plans in this area include putting items up for sale at a given price, as opposed to just liquidating for the current best buy offer. Also we are considering an auto-melder, which melds up items as you buy them to prevent your inventory filling overnight with bought items. As always, we thank you for your help testing Grid12. Please reports bugs and other issues in this thread. Rob & Tim, Jetbolt Games |
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Post by gingerbear on May 30, 2013 11:29:39 GMT -5
Yay! Two things: - please make a "sort inventory button", which would order the perma / temporary storage by equipment type and level. It would help a lot to see through the chaos, and would also make melding faster. (At least we could decide easier whether its worth starting to meld). - The "next" button of permanent storage is overlapped by the first splinter crystal ikon. I have accidentally used up at least twice due to a small misclick. Would you please change the appearing order, hide the crystals while the inventory ui is on, move the inv ui, or find another easy solution? Thank you. Also, I can sell to myself with a 10% cut? Best deal ever.  |
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Post by tarbomb on May 30, 2013 11:36:47 GMT -5
First thing I'm wondering - why is there a minimum price for buy offers? For low-level items, there should be a way to buy them for 0 coins so people just starting out can get stuff that pros would just delete normally. The pricing system would mean that begging isn't really an issue for more valuable items since they'd get priced out of the market.
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Post by mrakorisan on May 30, 2013 11:46:24 GMT -5
Nice to hear that you changed victory region count to 10. It looks like we'll have to kill more convoys, Yay And it's also great that we finally can trade with each other. Good job! |
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osx
Very Brave Tester
Staying alive - ah ah ahh ah♫
Posts: 18
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Post by osx on May 30, 2013 19:41:29 GMT -5
First thing I'm wondering - why is there a minimum price for buy offers? For low-level items, there should be a way to buy them for 0 coins so people just starting out can get stuff that pros would just delete normally. The pricing system would mean that begging isn't really an issue for more valuable items since they'd get priced out of the market. I disagree. New players shouldn't be able to start out with items that are worth a lot (to them). Take your own experience for example. At first, a level 7 or 8 or 9 item would seem like a LOT, but after a bit you move on and end up not even keeping those items. If we could just give those away, we'd let new players skip a portion of the game. |
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Post by hypevosa on May 30, 2013 20:26:07 GMT -5
If you institute Apple like taxes you'll prohibit market use for low level items, and by new players. If you institute EVE like taxes without EVE like player levels, you'll not make any money.
10% sounds good.
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Post by Duco on May 31, 2013 8:07:37 GMT -5
So... What was the tax for?
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Post by tarbomb on May 31, 2013 10:59:06 GMT -5
I disagree. New players shouldn't be able to start out with items that are worth a lot (to them). Take your own experience for example. At first, a level 7 or 8 or 9 item would seem like a LOT, but after a bit you move on and end up not even keeping those items. If we could just give those away, we'd let new players skip a portion of the game. Here's the problem: like in RotMG, any attempt by newbies to sell their items is going to be undercut by pros who would otherwise delete those items, and therefore are willing to give them away free or sell them at minimum price; newbies therefore won't have any coins to use. Therefore, the low-level players of the game don't have a viable market, so progression at those levels is going to be mostly based on drop luck - a factor that, especially at low levels - can lead to much frustration. The only way a newbie can quickly bypass that is by buying coins. And while that may sound good (more money for Jetbolt!), keep in mind that newbies are least likely to throw cash at a game that they're not familiar with yet. |
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Post by rob on May 31, 2013 11:25:16 GMT -5
A reasonable solution to this might be to have noob loot be common, so that newbs can pick up what they need without having to resort to the markets.
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Post by tarbomb on May 31, 2013 14:38:30 GMT -5
A reasonable solution to this might be to have noob loot be common, so that newbs can pick up what they need without having to resort to the markets. That helps too. But then again, that begs the question: why the arbitrary restriction on prices? You mentioned you were worried about begging. Thing is: the market is anonymous, and if anybody puts an offer out at a nonzero price, the "beg buy offer" isn't going to be visible. That means spamming the chat requesting free items isn't going to help anyone, so (aside from the few idiots who will find a way to troll no matter how the game works) nobody will bother with begging. |
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Post by lemnisweet on May 31, 2013 15:24:09 GMT -5
Can someone get me a code please I would appreciate it!!!
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Post by hypevosa on May 31, 2013 19:05:29 GMT -5
I don't like the current system where you only see the highest market price - this screams easy price manipulation when the only thing anyone sees is the current highest buy offers. Hopefully when we get the sell offers ability this will be balanced out.
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Post by quicklite on Jun 1, 2013 1:04:01 GMT -5
I really hope that when the sell offers come, you can attach items to your offer as well (at the cost of extra taxed coins, of course). That will: a) keep coins necessary, but stop them from being able to necessarily buy you everything (for you'll have to find some stuff, too). That way, if someone decides to buy $1000 of coins for some reason (and I'm not saying this is a bad thing  ), they can't just kinda buy up the entire economy and 'win' without lifting a finger in-game. But since coins will still have to be used, no matter what you are doing, as well as pure coin transactions still being allowed to exist, coins will still be very much worth buying. b) It will make the inevitable 'sell' tab more interesting (hrm, this guy is offering me 5 coins, but this guy is offering me 3 coins and a lvl12 speed augment). After all, without it you are just comparing prices. With it, you have another factor. I also kinda wish I could see everyone else's buy offers. It would make things much nicer. |
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Post by rob on Jun 1, 2013 6:10:03 GMT -5
I agree that adding barter might be more interesting. However, the model I'm pursuing uses coins for all transactions, so that all transactions can be taxed fairly. In addition, I don't think adding barter would prevent $$ players from making attractive offers -- they could buy the 'sweetener' items for coins, then add them to their coin offers, all without venturing outside Origin. I'm starting to think of the Grid12 economy as a "pay to trade" system: - trade tax is the only coin sink in the game
- coins are only useful for trading
- coins are the only thing Jetbolt sells
- eventually, coins will not drop but will only be available from Jetbolt for $$
In one sense, the model is pay to win, because you can pay real $$ to get any item in the game. But you can do that in any game, using black market sites. The way the Grid12 model differs from most free-to-play systems is that when you buy an item, the money goes to other players, for items they found in the world. Therefore, paying $$ for an item doesn't create a new item, and so it doesn't devalue other players' items. On the other hand, buying coins does devalue other peoples' coins. So maybe it's better to have a bunch of items than a bunch of coins. But of course items can be devalued by a sudden increase in drop rates or a buff to player tank stats or the development of a new strategy for taking down certain enemies. I suppose that just like in the real world, it's good to keep your wealth in a variety of asset classes (stocks, bonds, real estate, etc). I agree that we need more visibility into the market. An easy next thing to add is a history of recent transaction prices. We can also show more buy offers than just the highest, and we can show quantities. |
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Post by gingerbear on Jun 1, 2013 9:01:34 GMT -5
Rob, can we make comments on the roadmap? For example I see that you have added the "kill off tooltips on openmenu". It not only happens as a bug with building tooltips, but vehicle tooltips can get stuck too. (I particularly get the spectre tooltip stuck on my screen often.) - I assume both work similarly, so solving one would solve the other, just thought I'd mention another case where it happens too. Another question is the "automeld" function at build 54. I'd say this could wait, and is not that important, even dangerous if done wrong. Namely, - What if automelding my stuff would result in getting a level 13, 11, and 10 items, but I do not want to waste precious space for the lower tiers? Or the other way around, what if I'd like to have the lower ones as a result, hoping that if I find 1 or 2 more of those tiers my meld chain can go even further? (In this case, the pre-melding would be there to "save" a state in case of a death). It actually boils down to: Can I see the results of automelding beforehand and can I select a desired result? - Similarly, if for example I can craft a lvl 6 item by melding two lvl 5s or eight lvl 3s, can I choose which bunch I'd like to meld first? It's not always the highest is desired (might want to keep it for meld chains), and it's not always the lowest, either (fast progression or expiration of high meldables at hand). I think being able to sort equipment by type and level aside from the default expiration time would help more in the first round than using an automeld button. |
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We'll experiment later with Apple-like levels (30%) and EVE-like levels (1%).
), they can't just kinda buy up the entire economy and 'win' without lifting a finger in-game. But since coins will still have to be used, no matter what you are doing, as well as pure coin transactions still being allowed to exist, coins will still be very much worth buying.