kable
Very Brave Tester
Humble Soldier
Posts: 18
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Post by kable on Aug 17, 2013 1:26:59 GMT -5
So, basically, first off, you completely removed VP without any compensation, therefore, the people that were saving up and grinding for more VP lost hours, if not DAYS of work for nothing. There was NO warning to the playerbase that I saw saying to spend our VP before they're all wiped. This game is in testing. You should expect that everything you have can get deleted at any time. It has happened several times before and it will likely happen again!  I was tempted to say something like this. People keep forgetting that it's just a testing phase. Kind of makes me shudder when I think about the shop, though. Already, people just trying to help out another have their "nearly free item for the needy" thwarted by others who are greedily ninja-buying the goods. (I think it was) Tarbomb stopped me when I mentioned a trading system, because it basically sets the ground for RWT, but if this game is going to be co-op I can see issues with the current item system. There's no way to guarantee helping out a friend. |
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Post by Ood on Aug 17, 2013 11:03:57 GMT -5
Kind of makes me shudder when I think about the shop, though. Already, people just trying to help out another have their "nearly free item for the needy" thwarted by others who are greedily ninja-buying the goods. (I think it was) Tarbomb stopped me when I mentioned a trading system, because it basically sets the ground for RWT, but if this game is going to be co-op I can see issues with the current item system. There's no way to guarantee helping out a friend. That's unfortunate. The guaranteed way of helping a friend however is to just kill stuff with them. Yes, I realize that that doesn't help with very specific cases, and help with items obtained when the helped isn't online. But, if you get a loot and they are with you, they also get a loot. |
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K
Very Brave Tester
Posts: 16
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Post by K on Aug 17, 2013 17:52:56 GMT -5
I just believe that the punishment for death is far too small.
Maybe not loss of all prisms, but maybe a decrement in something else?
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Post by Kelsoo on Aug 17, 2013 18:14:25 GMT -5
I just believe that the punishment for death is far too small. Maybe not loss of all prisms, but maybe a decrement in something else? Agreed in some stances. Loss of all prisms would be very harsh.. with the removal of everything else though aon, something else will have to be added so that it can be lost. |
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Post by rob on Aug 17, 2013 19:21:01 GMT -5
Hey all, Thanks for the feedback. As always, when we make big changes it throws the system out of whack in various ways. Hopefully we'll get a lot of the kinks ironed out with the next build. I personally have been out of town on the world's slowest connection with my 2007 laptop, so I was not really able to play much.  Following are some problems that can be addressed with some small tweaks: Convoy route lines: too bright Convoy routes: too many Convoys: too many onscreen at a time Rewards for exploring: too high Rewards for connecting towns: too low Rewards for clearing: too low Removing VP made gridshards basically worthless as an individual reward. We are working an per-tank-class XP-like reward which will hopefully make gridshard-awarding enemies worth fighting again. It should be quick and easy to add an item reward for connecting towns. We are considering a reward for leveling towns as well. And we could convert the region-clearing rewards from VPs to items. Obviously we can't keep doubling the requirements for unlocking new tanks. I am thinking that for the forseeable future, new tank classes will require level 20 tank unlock items. We'll need to add a mechanism for deciding which level 20 tank is unlocked when you use the item. Melding the level 20 unlockers will become easier over time as new item rewards and new boss encounters are added. The drill station changes were a result of making the drill fit in its box and ripping out a bunch of hacky special-purpose code. Having outbuildings be able to make minions is a feature we'd like to bring back, so we can use it on lots of different forts. We are also thinking that convoys shouldn't stick strictly to their routes. We're thinking they'll randomly be a little off to the side, or maybe zigzag or loop every now and then. Thanks for helping us identify the issues with the new features! Keep it up! Rob |
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Post by rob on Aug 17, 2013 19:23:32 GMT -5
What if convoys dropped a different type of tank unlocks than forts? What if I suddenly found myself in this strange region with all new enemies I haven't seen before, and their tank drops were of a different type? What if I won some fun competition or logged in during an event, and got a tank of a different type(some would use it, some would save it to meld into other "event" tanks, some would sell it, and some would be that one rich guy who spends half his fortune to buy them all). All just examples of course. The more tanks there are, the more types, or families of tanks there might be. For maximum fun: Don't always tell people how to get a new tank... maybe it would need to be free to use for a while for testing purposes though. Which reminds me, a free tank rotation is something I really hope we'll get. Even now with only about 20 tanks, it would already work well I think. Some interesting ideas in there.... |
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Post by israphial on Aug 17, 2013 19:57:45 GMT -5
I still think you should break tanks into branches so people can decide how they want to play.
Not everyone wants to kill convoys. Not everyone wants to clear. Not everyone wants to scout.
Like I said in my post a couple of days ago, I feel like the tanks should be divided into either 3 or 4 FAMILIES, consisting of the Melees, Scouts, and snipers.
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Post by Kelsoo on Aug 17, 2013 21:24:11 GMT -5
Hey all, Obviously we can't keep doubling the requirements for unlocking new tanks. I am thinking that for the forseeable future, new tank classes will require level 20 tank unlock items. We'll need to add a mechanism for deciding which level 20 tank is unlocked when you use the item. Melding the level 20 unlockers will become easier over time as new item rewards and new boss encounters are added. Prepare for a severe dose of bias and wall text the likes of which you probably have seen. I don't quite think that can be a permanent fix either, as it stands the current build system is too grindy up to those higher levels, making it easier to get level 20 unlocks as a direct result of increased drops or items is a quick solution, but in my opinion not an easy one. Item crafting will need some fixes and changes, just the straight melding two similar things obviously is not enough. It can take a very substantial amount of time to get just one level 17 item, let alone all the way up to 20. Isra's "tree - like" structure could do some work (at least to allay some pains of unlocking) . But you still have the problem with augs. Also please never ever add specific drops to things, like making a building drop a specific pulch or tank unlock, that is asking for bad things to happen and cherry picking- convoys-. If a specific drop or "upgrade" were to be added I think it would best work as a specific item, but even still. More recipe like structures and "tree like" systems could benefit the game's crafting system very well, even adding a  (level? possibly?) item that replicates an item of that level could speed up unlocks. I very much like the idea of returning to VP sometime in the future, and making it more useful, used for maybe upgrading not the augs of your tank, but maybe more specific things such as an extra trigger (has x amount of uses?) possibly the ability to buy rockets or something? Or temporary boosts to turret speed and etc... maybe even some permanent things. VP was super useful for newer tanks, but it got useless quickly. Even aesthetic changes would be pretty sweet! Changing the color of your shield or laser I still hate the new drills, and the super tanks have much to health, though watching a convoy get para'd next to one then seeing those cute pinkies swarm tanks while a cutlass tries to fend them all of is.. something to bewilder. I propose changing it so that only the spawners can rotate, and the super tanks are spread a bit more so you can attack the healer. As it stands no one really wants to clear these at all, and they ruin anyone who trys to solo clear because they take far to long to rid of. And the trade system... hmm quite a piece of work we have there. I don't think the base idea should be changed, no one person should be able to directly trade another in the form of Realm. The "hub" like structure is pretty nice, and prevents alot of bad effects. My gripe would be to just make it more accessible, and please for the love of Grid remove the multiple decimals, .1 should be the lowest price. Possibly .01 but no more. Maxing (prisms) in my opinion is a bit harder, simply because soloing Drills and Supertanks is obnoxiously tedious and boring. But does it really do anything? Most people are content with Auroral prisms and a bit lower; and will most likely just talk themselves out of going after anything more simply because of the time sink. I think the adding of new enemies may be able to outweigh this, though it certainly has the chance to be a problem in the future. Clearing is a hard one to be handled, you can't reward a player higher by just upping the loot pool and thus making convoys useless. And rewarding only once a region is 100% cleared has faults, you don't get those rewards if you aren't on atm, that should be fixed so that can be implemented. And clearing a whole region is very time consuming, though it should still be rewarded. It should not be the only reward in clearing. But, fortess kills, and a sort of system of achievement for kills. Imagine every 20 or so kills of a "large" fortess grants something of want, x ammount for smaller, teamwork bonuses, make clearing interesting, spice up the enemy variety. Co-op rewards are important as well though!!!111!! Making co-op even more rewarding. Fortresses that require a certain ammount of triggers or sides to be "activated" sounds fun. New fortresses. Moving, antagonizing, "special or rare", fortresses. The scouting reward problem is not only that it is to high, but does not even promote clearing, and certainly not Co-op, it would be cool if you could group scouters, and reward them all when they discover a town together or something. Possibly going as far as to add more scouting roles, such as a scouter that heals the scouting group, one for crowd (but no fortresses, remove them from its targeting?) control. I have been tossing an idea around with the new XP system in adding a branching tree of triggers that you can unlock, but have to pertain to that tank, and choosing one cancels the other etc... In example. You have a trailblazer. As you get better with it by leveling it up or something, you unlock a path of triggers, one specified to a trailblazer that heals fellow scouters, one for crowd control. Of course you could just make different tanks for this. Endgame. TL;DR Better and more effiecent crafting, "tree like" structures for melding, return of VP in a better and cleaned up form, differing items and possibly enough to make an inventory? Cleaned and tidied trading system, Endgame pls, clearing incentives, less solo incentives (scouting reform), New dynamic enemies and the fixing of Drills/Supertanks. |
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Post by quicklite on Aug 18, 2013 8:44:26 GMT -5
Hey all, Thanks for the feedback. As always, when we make big changes it throws the system out of whack in various ways. Hopefully we'll get a lot of the kinks ironed out with the next build. I personally have been out of town on the world's slowest connection with my 2007 laptop, so I was not really able to play much. Following are some problems that can be addressed with some small tweaks: Convoy route lines: too bright Convoy routes: too many Convoys: too many onscreen at a time Rewards for exploring: too high Rewards for connecting towns: too low Rewards for clearing: too low Removing VP made gridshards basically worthless as an individual reward. We are working an per-tank-class XP-like reward which will hopefully make gridshard-awarding enemies worth fighting again. It should be quick and easy to add an item reward for connecting towns. We are considering a reward for leveling towns as well. And we could convert the region-clearing rewards from VPs to items. Obviously we can't keep doubling the requirements for unlocking new tanks. I am thinking that for the forseeable future, new tank classes will require level 20 tank unlock items. We'll need to add a mechanism for deciding which level 20 tank is unlocked when you use the item. Melding the level 20 unlockers will become easier over time as new item rewards and new boss encounters are added.The drill station changes were a result of making the drill fit in its box and ripping out a bunch of hacky special-purpose code. Having outbuildings be able to make minions is a feature we'd like to bring back, so we can use it on lots of different forts. We are also thinking that convoys shouldn't stick strictly to their routes. We're thinking they'll randomly be a little off to the side, or maybe zigzag or loop every now and then.Thanks for helping us identify the issues with the new features! Keep it up! Rob Thanks for the heads up, rob. It's nice to know that you're on top of things. Though I gotta say, quite a lot of us (me included >_>) got a bit carried away there. I mean, it is in closed alpha testing after all, it isn't gonna be perfect >_<. Anyway, as for the changes you stated, there's 2 things I'd like to comment on, which I highlighted in bold in the quote. First-off, the tanks. Having them all unlocked at 20 is a tiny bit flawed. Simply because every tank is as hard to get as the other, so you can either choose to be newbie-friendly, make lvl20s easy to get, and thus eliminate all tank-based endgame through simply being able to get every tank in a matter of hours, or be pro-friendly and make lvl20s hard to get, which would completely alienate newbies, which may cause newbies to no longer want to stay, thus halting player-base growth. My suggestion? Craftable tanks. Each tank is slightly different, and requires slightly different (and rarer) stuff to unlock, allowing mid and end-game tanks to be easily implemented. Although making this right would be time-consuming, here's a quick way to achieve a simpler form of this: Each tank needs 3 certain levels of unlock to be created. For example, a mustang could use a level 3, 1, and 5 unlock, a hurricane could use a level 4, 7, and 10, and a minatour (being a rare one) could use a level 16, 17, and 12. When you have all of these items, clicking on any unlock would say 'fuse to create <tank name here>'. clicking this button would lead to you a marketplace-confirmation type screen where you are shown the three items about to be fused, and asked if you are sure you want to do that. In order to find out what tanks need what, you could either tie it to the tank class selection screen (when you hover your mouse over a tank, its unlocks are displayed as well as its description), or just make a new menu entirely for viewing what needs what. How does that sound? And about convoy routes, I like the idea of convoys freestyling on how exactly they go, but I had another thought: what if convoys could change routes? That would mean that you would have to try and connect routes in certain places, and it would allow convoys to completely change directions without being completely unreachable (as you could see the route they are headed to and move appropriately). |
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Post by israphial on Aug 19, 2013 13:47:44 GMT -5
I like that idea, Quick. There are a lot of route crossings, after all.
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Post by Ood on Aug 19, 2013 14:15:41 GMT -5
Small glitch report...
Can make a tank 'blink' through right click... How:
Hold forward until you run into something (a drill wall for example)
Right click on other side of wall
Left click outside the right click menu
Voila, your non-blinking tank just blinked.
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Post by Ood on Aug 20, 2013 18:00:05 GMT -5
Kraken report:
Overall, it doesn't feel very special. At an astounding level 19 tank unlock, it's not quite as special as it could perhaps should be. The other newest tanks (Pally, Cutty, Mino) all give the feeling when you're playing with a large group that you're actually benefiting the party. The Kraken doesn't really have that, and seems like it's missing something.
Weaponry:
Anti-minion gun is nice. Does lowish damage with high fire rate, letting it gun down small things quickly. Attacks convoys as well, so it's not terrible.
Other gun is very low powered. It's going to take a while to bring down that drill by yourself with this sucker. This makes structure killing not its forte (which it isn't supposed to be).
Shielding:
Excellent. When killing a structure your big shield is facing front, with just enough room to rotate to the two secondary frontal shields. The only thing attacking you from behind should be minions, which your big gun will take care of easily.
Trigger:
Trigger 1, shield boost:
Is good, similar to Fury's shield trigger, adds most but not all of most of the tanks shields back on instantly. Very useful for scouting, getting into trouble on convoys, and taking damage when clearing.
Trigger 2, AoE DoT vs. Minion:
This trigger is by far the biggest let-down. As it is, it does ~ 100 DoT damage to all minions in a fairly large area (approx herc-bomb radius). Takes down the hp quickly so you only need 1 anti-minion gun shot, but there are other triggers out there that will insta-kill minions in large numbers, which makes this feel underpowered.
Trigger 3, Mines!:
4 mines in a diamond pattern lobbed directly ahead of the tank. They work fairly well, have yet to be able to gauge their true damage (not a whole lot, less than hercmine). Best used in conjunction with trigger 2. Also, decent for use on convoys that have been temporarily immobilized. Though getting 4/4 mines to explode on the same target is difficult(/impossible?). I normally only manage 2, at most 3.
Trigger 4, Heal:
A nice accompanying trigger to T1. Seems (yes feelings mean nothing) better than the corsair equivalent, but is roughly the same (have no numbers on either). Works great when scouting, or to save someone who got overzealous at a convoy.
Overall:
It's pretty meh. I'd rank it very nearly 2nd in terms of scouting ability (first the TB, then by a smidge the Herc, then Kraken, then Fury), but other than that, it's not particularly good at anything, certainly not compared to other tanks. Don't try to solo clear anything above a small structure. It can convoy a bit, but mostly as a dpser in which case there are multiple better dps options out there.
Other than that, it looks very cool. I was honestly expecting it to be a bit green as well as blue, but the all blue motif is nice.
Suggestions:
I discussed this one today with Rob a bit in game, and think it would be very cool (though perhaps hard to balance). I suggest replacing trigger 2 with a trigger that sets minions against their structures for a short time. In other words, make enemy vehicles be on our side for a few seconds, and have them attack structures and such. The time-frame for such a trigger would probably be rather small so the actual damage done by the minions to their parent structure might not be large (due to retargeting), but it would also essentially stop all minions from attacking players for the given timeframe. Problems that might arise with such a trigger include (but are not limited to): What about convoys/convoy minions?, will players still attack minions that are under the affects of this trigger?, what priority will minions set on multi-structure enemies (drill,delta,etc.)?, will minions damage other minions or only structures?. My answers would be: Let the convoy kill itself, yes, whatever's closest, whatever's closest, whatever's closest even other minion (since minion guns aren't structure/vehicle specific). In my mind, such a trigger would certainly make the Kraken feel deserving of its level 19 unlock.
If something such as that isn't feasible, then increasing the damage on trigger 2 and 3 isn't a bad solution.
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(level? possibly?) item that replicates an item of that level could speed up unlocks. 