Build 90

[Kelsoo]

Mar 15, 2014 13:30:21 GMT -5 tarbomb said:

Mar 15, 2014 10:47:50 GMT -5 Will said:

Is it not? Pretty sure the best short-term solution for issue of the Scorpion being overpowered was to nerf the triggers, not introduce a whole new tank into the game. The Scorpion is untouchable if used correctly, and, if I were Rob, I would remove the tank from the game all together or change it to something else that actually functions as a tank.

My point was that scorpion was never overpowered; it was only unique. It's not untouchable by any means, especially when one considers how vulnerable it is to long-range missile fire (two or three hits from missile towers will obliterate a scorpion), and it's totally useless at attacking single targets due to its absolutely abysmal single target DPS. It's totally outclassed by hornet against anything that doesn't have a swarm of minions around it.

The fact that people are still playing scorpion in large numbers despite the nerf is an indication that the appeal of the scorpion is that no other tank can do what scorpion can do, no matter how much it is nerfed or buffed. That's why I don't think we can fairly make tank effectiveness comparisons involving scorpion unless there are more sniper tanks to compare it with.

Also, you're conflating the word "tank" as used in the game (as an armed vehicle) with the notion of "tank" as something that takes and receives lots of damage. Given the large number of glass cannons in the game I'd argue that a "tank" in this game is an armed vehicle, but not necessarily a heavy one, and in that sense scorpion does actually "function as a tank."

To bad the whole not being untouchable is false, the scorpion is more than untouchable unless you are playing it using the gun, which would make very little sense given how worthless it is. The Scorpion is beyond invincible because it fights from such a long range there is almost no way you could ever be taking any serious damage, and if for some reason you did need to go in deeper you could A. Clear any minions with your big missile, or B. Cloak, not to mention at that distance missile dodging becomes far more than trivial.

People play the Scorpion for varying reasons. I personally play it when I don't feel like playing the actual game or really delve into the gameplay as much.

[tarbomb]

Zooming glitch: I was zooming when teleporting today and this happened:



Yeah, that's a trailblazer. The central part of one, to be exact.

The game was stuck between that and this, with no intermediate zoom levels reachable:



Only mouse scrolling (which would instantly toggle between the two) was usable. Keyboard didn't work at all.

[Kelsoo]

Mar 16, 2014 12:56:40 GMT -5 tarbomb said:

Zooming glitch: I was zooming when teleporting today and this happened:



Yeah, that's a trailblazer. The central part of one, to be exact.

The game was stuck between that and this, with no intermediate zoom levels reachable:



Only mouse scrolling (which would instantly toggle between the two) was usable. Keyboard didn't work at all.

tarbomb refer to Crunches video here Zoom Glitch

This bug has already been found and put into the list. It seems scrolling constantly or sporadically very quickly can activate this list, though we don't know if it works using keyboard zooms as well.

[Crunch]

Leaderboard bug:
"Total Fortress Kills (All Games)" has not updated (atleast for me) in quite a while. I'm not sure why this is... unless I truly haven't killed a single fortress since I noticed.

[delsy]

I've been trying to figure out how to play Valkyrie usefully. Which was tough. Shield rotation's a bust because slow regen, and turning really throws Valk's aim off, enough that even trigger 2 sometimes won't buy you enough time to take out a fortress. Competent circler, but a couple lucky shots by the enemy means you have to leave and wait for your slow shields.

Having experienced all this and read Valk's description, I really can't believe I didn't try scouting sooner. And it's reasonably competent. Valk's deficiencies above simply mean that it has to pick its battles and take out the main target before the scattergun gets distracted. Hefty front shields and trigger 2 give it time to search for a small tower to pounce on. It's a scouter for babies like me. I'm sure other tanks can accomplish this, but I haven't tried yet.

Would be nice though, if the scattergun had a 30* arc or so that it would cause it to fire, instead of it having to aim directly at a target. That would help cut down on the dead-time it sometimes spends when crowded with targets.

[trapped]

Mar 17, 2014 15:16:38 GMT -5 delsy said:

Would be nice though, if the scattergun had a 30* arc or so that it would cause it to fire, instead of it having to aim directly at a target. That would help cut down on the dead-time it sometimes spends when crowded with targets.

Or perhaps if it just didn't aim: making it shoot only forward would solve the slow-rotating, proximity-aiming problem; it would shoot in the direction the main enemies should be.

[delsy]

Mar 18, 2014 16:02:55 GMT -5 trapped said:

Mar 17, 2014 15:16:38 GMT -5 delsy said:

Would be nice though, if the scattergun had a 30* arc or so that it would cause it to fire, instead of it having to aim directly at a target. That would help cut down on the dead-time it sometimes spends when crowded with targets.

Or perhaps if it just didn't aim: making it shoot only forward would solve the slow-rotating, proximity-aiming problem; it would shoot in the direction the main enemies should be.

So, like a Predator with shields better suited for scouting. I could dig it.

[Justin]

trapped and delsy

Keeping the scattergun on the valk forward only sounds a lot like the dragon.

edit: oh, putting an @ actually alerts the people. Whoops.

[delsy]

Justin Maybe, but still quite different. Dragon's options are limited without triggers, but it can safely attack heavy targets. Valk with changes would have steadier damage but bad endurance in a standup fight.

[Will]

Valk doesn't even touch 200 DPS total even with all modules so I think they should do the following: make guns do 30 damage per shot, 1 shot per second, and make the Scattergun do 45 damage per shot. Boom. Valk is ultimate glass cannon.

[israphial]

Although I heavily disapprove of the Scorpion nerf (you just turned a unique tank into a useless tank), I think that the Kraken buff was well done. Kraken is actually a viable tank now, and can be used without constantly feeling too weak to do anything.

[tribow]

Valk needs a buff in shields.

This thing cant even survive a minion horde coming at it. This could be balanced if it was like the mino and traded high dmg over high defense, but it doesnt even do high damage even with the buff.
The only three ways I could find the valk even slightly useful for is.
1. Paralyzing voys. It does it kind've well if you don't screw up. Still, compared to other paralyzing tanks, not so awesome.
2. The 3rd trigger for the valk does enough dmg to practically destroy the much weaker fortresses in one shot, but it regens so slow it's not even useful enough.
3. It can be a bit of a meat shield, if you have the enemy take down the two front shields and you just regen them with the 2nd trigger it can actually take a good amount of hits, but if compared to the other good meatshieders.....you see where I'm getting at
(#3ReasonsCauseI'mTribow)
The 1st trigger is barely useful. I'd trade that for a complete dps boost that regens quickly. And I would like it better if the 4th trigger was actually a stun and not a paralyze.
and pls
PLS
Buff the defense it is almost worse than silver
and buff the dps too. Maybe give it a buff for frontal assault dps and buff the front shields and leave the back with the same shield it has so it is a bit like the corsair without the cool shield buffs.

[israphial]

Mar 20, 2014 22:24:07 GMT -5 tribow said:

Valk needs a buff in shields.

This thing cant even survive a minion horde coming at it. This could be balanced if it was like the mino and traded high dmg over high defense, but it doesnt even do high damage even with the buff.
The only three ways I could find the valk even slightly useful for is.
1. Paralyzing voys. It does it kind've well if you don't screw up. Still, compared to other paralyzing tanks, not so awesome.
2. The 3rd trigger for the valk does enough dmg to practically destroy the much weaker fortresses in one shot, but it regens so slow it's not even useful enough.
3. It can be a bit of a meat shield, if you have the enemy take down the two front shields and you just regen them with the 2nd trigger it can actually take a good amount of hits, but if compared to the other good meatshieders.....you see where I'm getting at
(#3ReasonsCauseI'mTribow)
The 1st trigger is barely useful. I'd trade that for a complete dps boost that regens quickly. And I would like it better if the 4th trigger was actually a stun and not a paralyze.
and pls
PLS
Buff the defense it is almost worse than silver
and buff the dps too. Maybe give it a buff for frontal assault dps and buff the front shields and leave the back with the same shield it has so it is a bit like the corsair without the cool shield buffs.

I'm gonna go on this one piece by piece. For one, yes, I agree, it needs a shield buff or a weapon revamp, or both. For the record though, Minotaur doesn't trade high attack power for low defensive power - Mino's shield's are reliable and 2 of the Mino's triggers are defensive, including an invulnerability trigger that mods can increase the duration of. Minotaur is an excellent balance of offense and defense and that's why I think I can at last say that I've found my favorite tank.

The problem with Valk's paralysis trigger i that it's useless, if anything, dangerous on voys. A voy that's standing still can still shotgun the hell out of people; if Valk is going to be made into a voy tank, it needs to have an ability set similar to Avenger so that it can also stun the downed voy.

IMO Valk's scattergun needs to be buffed significantly (25%+ damage boost), it's lasers need to be re-nerfed (they're useless anyway, that's not the purpose of Valk) AND it's two front shields need to be buffed in terms of regen time (they need to start regening much faster and they need to be stronger). This would make it a viable tank. It's triggers also need to be adjusted but I'm not going to get into that. IMO just a stun trigger on it would be nice. Perhaps a boost trigger too.

[israphial]

You pushing build 91 today?