Convoy Idea

[rob]

Hey all,

I was thinking about how to address the tension currently felt between explorers and convoy hunters. Here is an idea:



The map contains many fixed convoy routes -- the straight lines. The first one gets as close as X distance from Origin. The next one gets as close as 2X to Origin, etc, as shown by the dotted circles. The more you explore, the more routes you'll find. Once a route is discovered, players can work together to clear space, preparing the ground to catch any convoys coming along the route.

The big difference is that each route spawns convoys independently of other routes, say once every hour or so. Therefore, finding more routes always increases the number of convoys per hour. If 5 routes have been discovered, there will be 5 convoys per hour.

Some details: I don't think convoy routes will be explicitly drawn on the map. They'll be found by noting where the convoys go. As convoy bosses on a given route are killed, the frequency of new convoys on the route should be reduced. Thus, the players should be constantly hunting for new routes, clearing them, and harvesting convoys until the route peters out. X should probably be about a region width or so.

Any opinions?

[amitp]

Interesting idea. I guess the lore would be that the enemy has stuff to transfer between their towns and you just happen to have run across one of the routes they use, so let's keep hitting them until they learn that they need a different route.

In a game with 100s of players, I expect the knowledge transfer between players to be minimal. "Noting where the convoys go" seems like it won't work well when you have many players. I might see one but how do I communicate that to everyone else? How do I communicate it to players who aren't logged on yet? I'd prefer that if any player sees something, it gets put on the map, not only for convoys but any useful information in general. It can fade out as the information gets older. But that's just my gut feeling.

It seems like lots of things will change when the game has more players, and I'm probably not good at predicting

[gingerbear]

Just to get this clear, in this new system:

- Convoys will move on straight line, where each line is tangent to the radius of n*X? On your picture there is no tangent to the same radius twice, so we can assume once we find a route it will be a fix one for that distance so we have to venture further to get a new one?

- Given the minimum distance requirement, there is no chance for an origin spawn kill?

If so, I approve of this new concept, seems to address the current problems well.

Questions:

- When is a route considered to be discovered? Is it the radius? Is it the point of the tangent (with an Epsilon limit of neighborhood error)? Is it a small chunk of the track more-less parallel to the track?

- How will we know that we have discovered a route? Will it be announced like city finding? Will it be rewarded?

- Even though the route will not be marked on the map, will at least the point of finding be visible on the map, maybe even for about 10-30 minutes, so an explorer with team play in mind could note it down?

- Clearing sectors will make convoy spawns faster, by your road map. Will they affect a) all, b) only that are tangential/crossing c) all within Y range routes?

- Are these routes have a) "random from all" b) "random from select" c) "unique on current map" types of convoys? In other words, can we expect the same challenge at the same distance? This could be something to play around with, or could be different to each Grid when there are multiple words already.

- How the different routes affect the win condition? Can we kill from any route to reach the limit, do we have to kill N from each, etc?

This is for now, I'll think about better questions and opinions later on.

---

EDIT amitp

In a game with 100s of players, I expect the knowledge transfer between players to be minimal. "Noting where the convoys go" seems like it won't work well when you have many players. I might see one but how do I communicate that to everyone else? How do I communicate it to players who aren't logged on yet? I'd prefer that if any player sees something, it gets put on the map, not only for convoys but any useful information in general. It can fade out as the information gets older. But that's just my gut feeling.

What you have here is basically forcing the players to be creative, communicative with each other, aka "proactive". To know where the convoys go

all you have to do is
1) make a screenshot of the map
2) be online when a convoy comes, note down its starting point
3) wait a little until you can surely draw a straight line, and note down the line
4) edit onto your screenshot, upload
5) post it on the forum

What everyone else has to do:
1) check the forums regularly, or if you are lazy have someone on your team who does it. Also, the straight lines that will form on the map sooner or later will be a dead giveaway ....

This of course will not help those who are too lazy / ignorant / stupid to look for information they need, but some people just can't be helped. The rest will prevail. I expect a map to be around for at least 3-7 days, so making an effort to note them on the forums might be warranted.

A "lazy friendly" solution could be the following:
1) There is no noting on the initial exploration
2) Each convoy kill on a route will add a 10% opacity for said route, so after 10 kills it will be fully visible.
3) When it closes to exhaustion, each kill will decrease this opacity, so when it's exhausted it will be invisible again.

[rob]

Yes, convoys go straight, each tangent to its circle around Origin at radius n*X. Thus, no convoy can go through Origin.

As for the rest of your questions, they are really good questions!

[amitp]

gingerbear: I don't mind making players be "proactive" but I'd much rather it be part of the game than off on the side, in forums that most players won't visit. Having people take screenshots, then leave the game to upload images, then post a link on forums all seem like distractions that take away from the game. But it's less work for JB that way

It's not just Grid12. I'm also not a fan of situations like Terraria where you have to look everything up in the Wiki to get anywhere. I guess I'm old fashioned and want the game to be self contained. Alternatively if actively using the forum is part of the game design then I want the forum account and game accounts merged, with data flowing both ways without friction.

[gingerbear]

amitp: Yes, that seems to be a valid concern. Some newcomers can't even seem to be able to use (i.e. read) the forum or the wiki properly - why are they here testing, btw? -, but if the majority of the players will be indeed like that, then yes, everything should be placed in game. I'm still keeping my hopes up in a good playing community, though.

rob: any chance this convoy idea will be fleshed out or was it just a random brainstorming?

[Ood]

Personally, I rather like how convoys currently work.

They jump city to city, then off the map. I think they could perhaps turn a bit sharper (perhaps as much as 90 degrees) so their paths aren't quite so predictable, but all in all I think they are nice as of now.

I do think there is room for this sort of idea however. Perhaps it could be incorporated as an 'Armada' instead of a convoy?
Convoys would be as they are now. Large central high damage flying tanks that meander from town to town not doing much other than 'supplying' the area (if the enemy supplies us, shure...).
Armadas would then be large fleets of warships complete with fighters, battleships, and everything in between. Think of them more as moving structures, perhaps. Small minions would spawn off of them to help guard the mothership. Since they would be on some sort of evil military mission, they would want to get where they are going as fast as possible, hence the line, and also avoid as much trouble as possible (Sir, they obliterated the previous armada. Well send it further away next time, dammit!).
Convoys and armadas would be differentiated by:
No minions spawned vs. (a hell of a lot of) minions spawned
Multiple main 'transports' surrounded by escorts vs. large militant fleet with wide variety of attack capabilities
Town jumping vs. straight line at set distance
Focus on specific type of drop (storage/gs) vs. other type of drop (augs)
Other ways.

Don't get rid of a good mechanic for what seems to be a whim.

Jun 12, 2013 8:04:09 GMT -5 rob said:

I was thinking about how to address the tension currently felt between explorers and convoy hunters. Here is an idea:

Exploring vs. convoying vs. clearing would be better solved with a more challenging end game criteria (my take here: grid12.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=193&page=1#2066)