Build 80

[tim]

Hello everyone!

We just pushed Build 80. Here are the changes for this week:

* /who now displays the number of users logged on.
* Sped up and reduced lag caused by opening the leaderboards.
* Juggernaut now shoots homing missiles.
* Added a new Level 17 player tank, the Scorpion.
* Added the Tormentor-class Missile Station, a new long-range fortress that spawns on the map.

This week, we've redesigned and re-released the Scorpion. It has a variety of explosive missile triggers, and an invisibility trigger for defensive purposes. We also have made a new fortress, which can shoot long ranged projectiles at players even if they're a fortress away. We're hoping this makes for some interesting and exciting situations on the standard map.

Please post any feedback or bug reports in this thread.

Due to the winter holidays, we won't be pushing builds for the next two weeks.

PLEASE NOTE: If you cannot connect, and you don't know why, ensure you are on Build 80 (Top left corner of the start screen). If not, reload your browser (You may need to do a force reload (ctrl+shift+r)).

Thanks for helping us to test our game.

Rob & Tim

[Ood]

Dec 19, 2013 15:08:07 GMT -5 tim said:

invisibility trigger for defensive purposes.

I really wish you guys would stop thinking that invisibility triggers are defensive. They are selfish (which isn't always a bad thing, don't get me wrong), they do not help the team, they increase survivability, but do NOT serve a 'defensive purpose'.

I think I have a 17 unlock, will have a better look at scorpion later today.

[Kelsoo]

I've been seeing massive improvements in the performance side of things, I almost get a consistent 45-55 FPS. It is very appreciated.

Now for feedback across various builds. I have yet to unlock many of the newer tanks, a result of not playing the game enough and tanks taking a while to unlock. But I will say that with the addition of new content the game just seems incredibly beautiful and vibrant with so much color.

I have unlocked the Dragon though, and I would have to say it fills the whole role of Pred and Valk as another a little bit of a solo clearer, but excels with others around, my opinions on it are, meh. It is above mediocre and does what it should I guess. Though the standard DPS without any triggers is enough to make you want to watch paint dry. It is a decent tank that doesn't have much wrong with it, but it not very much going for it either and I fear it may be overshadowed with the addition of other tanks, where this one has no real niche or "role".

But, speaking of the Predator and Valk.. they need work, desperately. Both tanks are rarely seen ingame anymore, and I wouldn't really be able to say why. In my opinion it may be because of the introduction of the enemy wander. Or it may just be that the roles that these tanks once filled are no longer viable with how the current game has advanced. As originally they were (in my opinion) tanks that you would use to solo forts and clear large areas, especially if you were alone.

But now these tanks seem out of place, it seems they are gaining overshadowed syndrome. Other tanks seem to be better alternatives than these two, which have gained nerfs as a result of minion wander and other new additions.

And still on the topic of tank balance, tanks such as the Avenger and Paladin are getting the same treatment it seems. And for these ones, I think you can chalk it up to the way convoys have changed and how players now approach them. As well as the fact that the game no longer relies on convoys at all, as there prevalence ingame has diminished greatly, they have become more of a minigame.

Now convoys have been making a slight resonation, it is in a different light. Again, in older builds tanks kind of had "classes" Convoy tanks, Solo clear tanks, support etc etc. Now tanks still have somewhat of the same attributes, changes to the game make some of them unviable. All of this really leads up to the fact that convoys are no longer taken on with how they used to be back in earlier builds, where it was common for a Pally or Avenger to play "convoy support" and paralyze voys and then disarm them. As of now convoys seem to just be straight up murdered as fast as possible to keep them from escaping so that players may go back to town clearing. Players seem to only want to take them out or attack from the front to get some of the mains loot and then go on with their business. The Paladin and Avenger do not compliment the whole " 20 trailblazer party " that convoys get. And both tanks are not particularly useful in the rest of the game.

The Trailblazer is a whole other problem, I have no idea why people use it over Cutty on voys, and I don't even know why it is at Convoys in the first place, but it is. I would leave the feedback for this one on more experienced players with the tank.



But hooray for enemy variety! It is so refreshing to add new patterns and add diversity to the regions, though the tormentor is much to easy in my opinion, it may be the easiest "big" fortress in the game, as you can very easily cheese it with circling.

Though the new Isolator Barrier Unit is incredible fun! It's like Drills 2.0 in a good way (while both drills and Deltas need work imo). It is a fun encounter that forces you down hallways and such. And it makes you have to think about when you will retreat as trying to run through the often leftover turrets of the previous station may kill you with unwise planning. I love the concept of not being able to have free reign over were you move, as well as being forced to stick with team mates in hallways or otherwise closed off areas where you have to think. This new station does it right and succeeds in killing off monotonous gameplay with no danger.

I am incredibly excited for more and more interesting enemy variants or new enemies. Now the great things about the new builds aside, a problem I am experiencing lately is the yearn for endgame. As of now it isn't like it isn't there, though it never shows up anymore. And it feels like you are left clearing out towns 24/7 waiting for the bosses to show up. And that is the problem IMO, players are now much too focused on town clearing rather than going out and spawning the more interesting encounters in game. I think it has to do partly with how ridiculously rewarding town clearing is. Quite literally showering you with better loot than convoys and with much more ease.

The problem comes with players only sticking to towns or convoys, and not actually venturing out and bothering to find the challenging content such as the subcommanders and Escape Flot. As a result it feels like a piece of meat is being dangled in front of my face that you try to grab but never succeed in.

Idea: Make the Subcommanders attack players even near towns, or, alternatively even make them attack towns themselves! Maybe decreasing their levels and stealing supplies who knows, but it would be a nice refresher to be attacked and swarmed by them while clearing towns.

In the same vain of making towns more dynamic, takeovers. Occasionally maybe every 45 minutes or some other variable such as only Level (x) towns can be effected etc.. Towns (offscreen) are silently "taken over" by a Subcommander that spawns various fortresses around areas inside the towns, marking them red indicating that they are infected or something. And once you teleport there you are forced to stay until you clear certain fortresses, which upon clearing a mini(?) version of a subcommander spawns attempting to escape.

Second, start Operation: Save the Convoys, or do something about them.

[Crunch]

Kelsoo, on the topic of Blazers vs Convoys, please compare:

Trailblazer
Cutlas

Note that they have the same theoretical max dps from standard weapon use. They also have similar shield stats, but consider these points:

• Blazer has 360º single turret, delivering the full dps potential to the closest target.
 ○ Cutty has 4 outwardly positioned cannons and must sit on or be between enemies in order to take advantage of its maximum damage output. 
• Blazer can deliver 2-4 shots at full dps per strafing attack.
 ○ Cutty can deliver only a maximum of 83% dps in such an attack.
• Blazer can 'surf' certain convoys and still do 100% damage.
 ○ Cutty can only deliver a maximum of 83% dps. 
• Blazer has an obscenely long cloak duration and can be increased 5% per mod, this makes it easier to get in damage, collect loot, etc.
 ○ Cutty has a good cloak too, but not on par with the Blazer and loses 5 additional seconds to cooldown. 
• Blazer can use its blink offensively to maximize damage done while cloaked, but can also be used to escape. Meaning, more time doing damage and less time transitioning.
 ○ Cutty has some good offensive damage triggers, but they're mostly dependent on the cloak to use fully. That 45 second cloak CD is a killer. 
• Blazer can use its 3rd trigger to chase down or get ahead of voys. It's a 35 second CD, but considering that blink is only 10, the Blazer is never far from a voy. 
 ○ Cutty must simply be in the right place at the right time. 
• Blazer triggers complement the Hornet triggers. Hornet overdrive can be used very effectively for ~2k bonus damage. While the hornet is firing, enjoy a 70% reduction in cooldown for the Blazer cloak. While cloaking with Blazer, enjoy a 71.5% reduction in cooldown for Hornet overdrive. 
 ○ Cutty has no similar trade off.

Overall, the Blazer has better sustained dps and much better survivability than the Cutty. Also, it's simply more agile and flexible while doing voys. Tar and I had a great wilderness voy the other day which would have been impossible using a Cutty.

[Ood]

Dec 20, 2013 0:38:46 GMT -5 Kelsoo said:

I've been seeing massive improvements in the performance side of things, I almost get a consistent 45-55 FPS. It is very appreciated.

Now for feedback across various builds. I have yet to unlock many of the newer tanks, a result of not playing the game enough and tanks taking a while to unlock. But I will say that with the addition of new content the game just seems incredibly beautiful and vibrant with so much color.

I have unlocked the Dragon though, and I would have to say it fills the whole role of Pred and Valk as another a little bit of a solo clearer, but excels with others around, my opinions on it are, meh. It is above mediocre and does what it should I guess. Though the standard DPS without any triggers is enough to make you want to watch paint dry. It is a decent tank that doesn't have much wrong with it, but it not very much going for it either and I fear it may be overshadowed with the addition of other tanks, where this one has no real niche or "role".

But, speaking of the Predator and Valk.. they need work, desperately. Both tanks are rarely seen ingame anymore, and I wouldn't really be able to say why. In my opinion it may be because of the introduction of the enemy wander. Or it may just be that the roles that these tanks once filled are no longer viable with how the current game has advanced. As originally they were (in my opinion) tanks that you would use to solo forts and clear large areas, especially if you were alone.

But now these tanks seem out of place, it seems they are gaining overshadowed syndrome. Other tanks seem to be better alternatives than these two, which have gained nerfs as a result of minion wander and other new additions.

And still on the topic of tank balance, tanks such as the Avenger and Paladin are getting the same treatment it seems. And for these ones, I think you can chalk it up to the way convoys have changed and how players now approach them. As well as the fact that the game no longer relies on convoys at all, as there prevalence ingame has diminished greatly, they have become more of a minigame.

Now convoys have been making a slight resonation, it is in a different light. Again, in older builds tanks kind of had "classes" Convoy tanks, Solo clear tanks, support etc etc. Now tanks still have somewhat of the same attributes, changes to the game make some of them unviable. All of this really leads up to the fact that convoys are no longer taken on with how they used to be back in earlier builds, where it was common for a Pally or Avenger to play "convoy support" and paralyze voys and then disarm them. As of now convoys seem to just be straight up murdered as fast as possible to keep them from escaping so that players may go back to town clearing. Players seem to only want to take them out or attack from the front to get some of the mains loot and then go on with their business. The Paladin and Avenger do not compliment the whole " 20 trailblazer party " that convoys get. And both tanks are not particularly useful in the rest of the game.

The Trailblazer is a whole other problem, I have no idea why people use it over Cutty on voys, and I don't even know why it is at Convoys in the first place, but it is. I would leave the feedback for this one on more experienced players with the tank.



But hooray for enemy variety! It is so refreshing to add new patterns and add diversity to the regions, though the tormentor is much to easy in my opinion, it may be the easiest "big" fortress in the game, as you can very easily cheese it with circling.

Though the new Isolator Barrier Unit is incredible fun! It's like Drills 2.0 in a good way (while both drills and Deltas need work imo). It is a fun encounter that forces you down hallways and such. And it makes you have to think about when you will retreat as trying to run through the often leftover turrets of the previous station may kill you with unwise planning. I love the concept of not being able to have free reign over were you move, as well as being forced to stick with team mates in hallways or otherwise closed off areas where you have to think. This new station does it right and succeeds in killing off monotonous gameplay with no danger.

I am incredibly excited for more and more interesting enemy variants or new enemies. Now the great things about the new builds aside, a problem I am experiencing lately is the yearn for endgame. As of now it isn't like it isn't there, though it never shows up anymore. And it feels like you are left clearing out towns 24/7 waiting for the bosses to show up. And that is the problem IMO, players are now much too focused on town clearing rather than going out and spawning the more interesting encounters in game. I think it has to do partly with how ridiculously rewarding town clearing is. Quite literally showering you with better loot than convoys and with much more ease.

The problem comes with players only sticking to towns or convoys, and not actually venturing out and bothering to find the challenging content such as the subcommanders and Escape Flot. As a result it feels like a piece of meat is being dangled in front of my face that you try to grab but never succeed in.

Idea: Make the Subcommanders attack players even near towns, or, alternatively even make them attack towns themselves! Maybe decreasing their levels and stealing supplies who knows, but it would be a nice refresher to be attacked and swarmed by them while clearing towns.

In the same vain of making towns more dynamic, takeovers. Occasionally maybe every 45 minutes or some other variable such as only Level (x) towns can be effected etc.. Towns (offscreen) are silently "taken over" by a Subcommander that spawns various fortresses around areas inside the towns, marking them red indicating that they are infected or something. And once you teleport there you are forced to stay until you clear certain fortresses, which upon clearing a mini(?) version of a subcommander spawns attempting to escape.

Second, start Operation: Save the Convoys, or do something about them.

Feedback to Kelsoo's feedback, since we rarely agree.

• Check your performance again once the map is bigger
• Trigger based tanks are at a disadvantage unless abused (a la vindibomb), it's not the dragon's fault specifically.
• Predator is still a very good tank, there are just other ones that are newer, shinier, and steal its thunder. Why use a level 8(or whatever) tank, when you can have the prestige of a level 16+
• The Valk is an okay tank, but okay tanks are not very good in this state of the game. Things are so easy that shotgun dps is unnecessary, you simply want the highest dps possible for the longest time (see Crunchy's TB/Cutty comparison). Valk will never match the dps of a hornet or other dps tanks, there is no need to use it.
• Avenger is still ace at convoys, but if you have a load of TBs and hornets around, what's the point in stun/paralyze? If you find yourself in the company of some newbies, use the avenger, and everyone will be safer.
• Pally was never a great convoy tank, but it could (and still can) be considered a skill-based convoy tank. The disarm you must aim, and generally you have to speed boost to get in close enough, but the fact remains that this is one of the few tanks that can start surfing a convoy without paralyze and stun, which it can do as well. You have two options for surfing, making it quite versatile. Oh, the non-trigger based healgun, who doesn't like that?
• Convoy's themselves aren't 'broken' too terribly, they however need some variation (as does the entire game). What happened to the plans to make them wander a little, zig-zag, do loops, etc.? One of the best bits of olden convoys was when they turned, you weren't quite sure exactly what was going to happen.
• Crunchy summed up the trailblazer.
• New enemy variety. Hah, sure, we got a few new structures, now we can kill them over and over and over again just like the old ones. Sorry, but additional numbers of things isn't going to fix the fact that killing one structure now is the exact same as killing a structure tomorrow, yesterday, six months ago, or six months in the future (hopefully not this last one). I'll continue to beat the dead horse: Killing a structure is killing a structure, if the game is to go anywhere, killing structures must become fun, not incredibly boring and monotonous.

Further feedback to Build 80:

Scorpion invisibility is bad. Give it invulnerability if you want the trigger to actually be defensive, or better still, give it an AoE anti-missle burst. Trigger damage on the Scorpion isn't terrible (it's even quite good when there are lots of enemies around, which is expected), but as the game progresses, I would think that trigger based tanks will eventually fall short of main weapon based tanks because augments and prisms do not apply to triggers. The only way that the trigger based tanks can improve their damage is through mods, when applicable. If we look at the scorpion's mods, we find that they are all trigger cooldown based. This means that my scorpion today, will virtually always do the same damage, the only difference is that with sufficient grinding I'll eventually be able to shoot missiles 2x as fast (a noteworthy accomplishment, don't get me wrong) But! this would take an absurd amount of time to achieve (my hornet has +7 mod to one stat, and as far as I know is the most moded tank in the game [unless the script kiddies have done something there too]), modules have been out how long? Will someone have the dedication to use their very standard tank when other, quicker methods of advancement are there?
Game balance is already bad, trigger based tanks only make it more difficult to sort out, in my opinion.

[Kelsoo]

More feedback.

Viking: At this point, in my opinion this tank is now one of the best solo clearers in the game (with the exception of Nova's, but all tanks kill those mind numbingly slow) The Viking tears down through fortresses faster than a triggered Wildfire, and with better crowd control if you can aim the bomb.

I think this tank may be a little overpowered, it's DPS is akin to the Mino, but with better shielding, survival, and crowd control all the time. It is basically what the mino was before the DPS nerf, but on slight steroids, as the crowd control bomb isn't that great and while I may have been drooling over it a few sentences back, thinking you are anything close to being invincible will send you 6 feet under, combined with an inability to properly use the bomb you end up with a sub- par tank with the problem of bad aiming and low survival due to not clearing minions to allow for proper shield regen.

Basically, in my opinion, make both guns fire at a slightly reduced rate, decrease the range of the bomb by a little, and increase it's damage. Getting a group of about 2 Vikings and a Hurricane would probably trounce anything the game had to offer, with an exception to any endgame enemy.

Fury: The Fury is one of those tanks. I used to consider it a better Phantom back before the Phantom was born again. Though it still wasn't that great of a tank. Obviously now the Phantom is a much different tank than it was, and the Fury is still pretty mediocre (a little worse than mediocre, sub par maybe), and in a game revolving around only using the optimal tanks or getting the highest possible DPS, this tank has problems.

So, the Fury can feasibly solo all regular structures in game, and can even be used on Zeta's and Omnis. That doesn't mean it should though. While it can solo most structures in game it does so with extreme boredom and monotony, having to constantly (especially for a tank that is supposed to be somewhat beefy) leave the battlefield to regenerate it's shields. With a useless 2nd trigger, shields that do not pair well with it's DPS and turret structure. You get a tank that can be used, but it really isn't a help to the team, or itself.

My opinion on what can happen to improve this tank goes as.

- Kill the second trigger off. There is almost no use whatsoever for a immobilization mine in this game at all (you could even go as far as saying that paralyze is overall not that useful of an effect in the game without a stun, or without being used on convoys/ moving targets such as patrols. Though even then a immobilization mine would not be useful on those encounters), and it is almost never used by most players, even in the situations where it could be even slightly useful. Replace it with an invincibility trigger (as opposed to invis) to add beefiness to the tank (without letting it immediately recharge shields) and also play support. Or something else.

- Increase the beef of the inner shields, or all. I hesitate to say this as I wouldn't want to end up with a redo of the Phantom. So increase them slightly.

- Change trigger one to do more damage to minions as opposed to structures? As well as increase regular DPS and reduce triggered DPS.


And now a brief addendum to what I formerly stated about the Tormentor. Increase the visibility of the missiles and decrease their damage, it is frustrating to not know they are there and then back up only to ram into about 17 of them and die. Though I would also say it might benefit from increased range, as it stands it adds another gameplay dynamic of playing the niche of a Sniper. Why not let it shoot a little further?

I would also not get completely lost in the topic of tank balance. Clearing motivation outside of constant clearing towns is needed again, I suggest nerfing the reward towns can give you slightly, and making them give you things other than tank unlocks.

Ood I myself can not stand most trigger based tanks, they require much abuse and other tanks provide general better and more consistent experiences. In particular tanks that have no DPS until triggered are my least favorite.

I also agree with the whole Pred and Valk thing. Predator provides excellent play still. Hopefully these shiny new toys die down and we can start forming more opinions on the balance of tanks.

[Hock Space]

I might have found a bug but it might have been caused from lag because I was downloading a game.

The gct bomb appeared from behind me and went towards me instead of from the gct.

[tribow]

I have 1 fps, but I believe it is because my computer has a dying battery (5 minute battery life, telling me I need a replacement)
Carry on I guess.

[Crunch]

I found a small bug:
Using Vindicator's heal carries over onto other tank classes after tank switch.
To reproduce:
> Drive vindicator toward enemies, use 4th trigger
> Switch to any other tank class, engage enemies
> health is continually regenerated
I'm not sure if this same type of bug applies to any other tanks. It does not seem to work with mino/dragon invincibility.

[quicklite]

Woah, the scorpion's back now?

Well, I suppose it's a sign. Time to check out the game again ^^.