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Post by rob on Feb 12, 2014 14:29:56 GMT -5
Greetings Testers!
After a little drama, build 86 is up! Changes include:
* Add 'L' key switch to disable a lot of lasers and effects
* Add smoke bursts when buildings are destroyed
* Fix bug where new players couldn't see other player icons until they moved
I built a new zoom system too, but when we deployed it we realized that it didn't work. We were going to add back a bunch of zoom levels and let you skip a lot of them when shift-scrolling, but it turns out that Chrome was not letting shift-scroll events get to the Flash program. So we'll need to re-think this.
I added a toggle for some of the effects in an effort to make the game playable even on machines with no support for Stage3D. Let us know if you find it helpful.
Rob & Tim
Jetbolt Games
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Jufda
Gallant Tester
Ninja
Posts: 64
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Post by Jufda on Feb 12, 2014 14:55:56 GMT -5
The brief testing with the new zoom system was good. Also, instead of holding the shift, you could make it toggle the fast/slow zoom.
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Post by israphial on Feb 12, 2014 15:01:28 GMT -5
I have some suggestions. Gonna make them straight and to the point.
1. Nerf missiles. Especially the ones from the little pink tanks. It's a minion. It should NOT be able to completely wipe my shield and take down a third of my health in one hit.
2. Nerf overall minion DPS. Way back when, people could solo things with relative ease unless they screwed up, and now, if you try to go and kill even an Alpha fortress, the minions wreck you immediately and you have to back out because they can kill you within 3 seconds. It should not be like that. I know that this game is based off of co-op, but soloing should still be relatively easy. I mean, granted, you shouldn't be able to solo stronger fortresses without backing out for a break, but an Alpha? Give me a break.
3. Slightly decrease Exterminator damage (the blood-red orbs that almost kill you upon hitting you) so that rushing doesn't cost you your pulches every time you attempt it.
4. Decrease the time it takes for Trailblazer's cloak trigger to regenerate. It's a scouting tank, and thus, should be able to cloak often.
5. Make both of Kraken's turrets shoot all enemies. I understand that Kraken is meant to be a minion-killer, but nobody likes it because of how lackluster it's damage is. And besides, minions keep getting buffed, which makes Kraken even more useless. This actually applies to quite a few tanks.
6. If you're going to keep buffing minions and... All enemies, give the tanks a shield buff or something.
Ok, I think I'm done ranting now.
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Post by Justin on Feb 12, 2014 15:03:25 GMT -5
The brief testing with the new zoom system was good. Also, instead of holding the shift, you could make it toggle the fast/slow zoom. I don't think there's any actual 'zoom speed'. If there's more zoom levels, it will look like it is slower. If it's less, it will look faster. I guess that could still work though, if shift were to toggle how many zoom levels you would 'skip'. So, if there are 10 and you start from 0, you'd only see zoom levels 0 2 4 6 8 and 10 rather than all of them. I've experienced the tanks-not-appearing-on-map bug a lot so it being gone is great news. |
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Post by tarbomb on Feb 12, 2014 20:35:22 GMT -5
What I'd really like to see is zoom speed corresponding with scrollwheel speed, so if you scroll in/out faster, it will zoom in/out faster. The zoom system that we briefly saw (and possibly the current zoom system, but it's hard to tell because it zooms so quickly) had the problem that no matter how quickly you scrolled, the zooming would take place at the same speed; a constant-speed zoom mechanism is unintuitive (especially to those of us accustomed to responsive phone-esque scrolling and inertial trackpads). It would be nice if every time you hit L (or M, N, J, or B) you got a little message telling you what you just toggled (e.g. "Music: turned on") similar to the message you get when you switch the control scheme. Often I accidentally hit a button when trying to chat and I don't notice that healthbars are gone until an enemy blows up without a visible healthbar. Smoke in general is very cool. 90% of the time it doesn't seem to cause any extra lag for me, but when farming in big groups, where there are lots of people and damaged enemies around it can cause some slowdown (and my laptop is only one generation old - I imagine it's causing worse lag on older machines); differing levels of smoke effects (instead of on/off toggles) would be nice so that we'd still have some of the effects with less lag. I'd like to see some sort of wind too, that would affect the smoke direction and maybe the speed of flying minions (a bit slower when flying against the wind). The best use of smoke, in my opinion, would be to increase visibility of missiles. Having a missile flying from your scorpion (or at you) trailing a plume of white exhaust behind it would be awesome. With ten people on most of the day (on average) and over twenty on at peak, I think it's about time we got private messaging features so we don't have to head to the IRC to do that. It's probably not time for guilds, yet, but PMs would definitely be useful. @isra: 1. Nerf missiles. Especially the ones from the little pink tanks. It's a minion. It should NOT be able to completely wipe my shield and take down a third of my health in one hit. Agreed. I'm OK with the pink minions, but I definitely think the long-ranged missiles from the pink buildings need a nerf though. Those things are murder, and are for all intents and purposes invisible when you're standing in a crowd of smoking minions. Perhaps the yellow unguided missiles from the orange missile stations could be given the high speed that they have now, and the guided missiles be made slower as a threat to inattentive players. 2. Nerf overall minion DPS. Way back when, people could solo things with relative ease unless they screwed up, and now, if you try to go and kill even an Alpha fortress, the minions wreck you immediately and you have to back out because they can kill you within 3 seconds. It should not be like that. I know that this game is based off of co-op, but soloing should still be relatively easy. I mean, granted, you shouldn't be able to solo stronger fortresses without backing out for a break, but an Alpha? Give me a break. What tank are you using? On a minotaur, thunderbolt, or predator, or hornet, I can blow straight through several alphas almost without stopping. 3. Slightly decrease Exterminator damage (the blood-red orbs that almost kill you upon hitting you) so that rushing doesn't cost you your pulches every time you attempt it. I half agree. I think a slight nerf would be nice, but it should be in range, projectile speed, or rate of fire (have them fire in bursts before reloading, sort of like viking) than in damage. Better yet, remove the lasers and leave the missiles alone. I don't have much trouble running through them unless I get careless, or penned in. 4. Decrease the time it takes for Trailblazer's cloak trigger to regenerate. It's a scouting tank, and thus, should be able to cloak often. No. A trailblazer buff, especially a cloak buff, would make that class invincible scouting-wise. The main enemy to a trailblazer is the comlink limit (and I'd argue that that needs reworking - I can understand why you wouldn't want to remove it outright but being forcibly teleported to origin without an exact, visible limit is annoying). Once you learn how to orbit, trailblazer can go on for a very, very long time unless you're unlucky enough to find a field of non-orbitable enemies (which happens a little more often now that there are long-ranged missile stations, but isn't too much of an impediment). I have no trouble rushing multiple region widths with one. 5. Make both of Kraken's turrets shoot all enemies. I understand that Kraken is meant to be a minion-killer, but nobody likes it because of how lackluster it's damage is. And besides, minions keep getting buffed, which makes Kraken even more useless. This actually applies to quite a few tanks. Kraken needs a massive buff, period. It's a joke as it is now and nobody uses it. The same applies for valkyrie, whose scattergun is so slow-firing and shields so weak that even alpha and beta stations are a pain. 6. If you're going to keep buffing minions and... All enemies, give the tanks a shield buff or something. I think the game difficulty is fine right now, but I do agree that the learning curve can be a little steep for newbies due to the lack of newbie zones. Perhaps to maintain the single battlefront goal, we could make newbie-specific "dungeons" for training separate from the grid? |
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Post by israphial on Feb 12, 2014 22:56:30 GMT -5
Because I have trouble with BB, you'll have to forgive me for my failure to properly quote you.
+1 to your visible toggle. I have thought the same thing numerous times, especially with this new L command. I can't tell when it's on or off until I look closely or sit on a Nova.
Agreed with smoke. I monitored my RAM and CPU while toggling smoke while sitting in a bunch of minions and there was no visible immediate change. It appears that, what little it does do is inconsequential to the usage and makes little difference regarding FPS. Which is great. It's a nice and polished feature that adds to the cosmetic value of the game.
Gigantic +1 to your PM suggestion - just yesterday, Fire and I were trying to hammer out a deal on a Kraken tank, and we had to take it to an IRC PM because there were far too many prying eyes. I have no doubt that a PM feature is coming, but it would be nice and convenient if it was added sooner rather then later.
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Jufda
Gallant Tester
Ninja
Posts: 64
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Post by Jufda on Feb 13, 2014 3:55:54 GMT -5
What I'd really like to see is zoom speed corresponding with scrollwheel speed, so if you scroll in/out faster, it will zoom in/out faster. The zoom system that we briefly saw (and possibly the current zoom system, but it's hard to tell because it zooms so quickly) had the problem that no matter how quickly you scrolled, the zooming would take place at the same speed; a constant-speed zoom mechanism is unintuitive (especially to those of us accustomed to responsive phone-esque scrolling and inertial trackpads). The brief testing with the new zoom system was good. Also, instead of holding the shift, you could make it toggle the fast/slow zoom. I don't think there's any actual 'zoom speed'. If there's more zoom levels, it will look like it is slower. If it's less, it will look faster. I guess that could still work though, if shift were to toggle how many zoom levels you would 'skip'. So, if there are 10 and you start from 0, you'd only see zoom levels 0 2 4 6 8 and 10 rather than all of them.
I agree with tarbomb, the zooming speed should be tied with scrolling speed like that. I used shift to scroll faster, but it would be better to be able to just scroll faster.
I don't really know what justin tried to say, seems like nonsense to me. Zooming from min to max in 3 seconds is faster speed than zooming it in 6 seconds...
It would be nice if every time you hit L (or M, N, J, or B) you got a little message telling you what you just toggled (e.g. "Music: turned on") similar to the message you get when you switch the control scheme. Often I accidentally hit a button when trying to chat and I don't notice that healthbars are gone until an enemy blows up without a visible healthbar. With ten people on most of the day (on average) and over twenty on at peak, I think it's about time we got private messaging features so we don't have to head to the IRC to do that. It's probably not time for guilds, yet, but PMs would definitely be useful. Toggling on/off messages would be good. I wonder why they haven't been implemented yet. Private messages would be good addition too, especially since there are sometimes even 20+ people playing. Another thing about chat, the fadeout timeout should be longer, or we should have a button to toggle it longer/shorter. |
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Post by fire on Feb 13, 2014 12:43:42 GMT -5
I can most certainly agree with the suggested idea to add private messaging. Also, The missiles do need a nerf, I've seen multiple people die large amounts of times from these towers. Your basic medium tower should not be demolishing players. I would propose either to half the damage, or as tarbomb suggested to half the speed of the missiles considering the reaction time of most players who are farming for prisms/xp aren't going to be at their top. Trailblazer cloak does not need a buff, I can already run all the way to the limit as long as im prismed up with little trouble. Kraken is still a near useless tank just by comparing it to nearly every other tank. Perhaps completely scrapping the tank and coming up with a new idea would be the best way to go for this one in my opinion. On the subject of the new build, I really like the smoke effects when you destroy a tower  |
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Post by Kelsoo on Feb 13, 2014 19:12:32 GMT -5
Okay, so first off, the smoke burst isn't very pretty. Or at least logical in any sense, I understand the weird and wacky nature about the game, though the smoke burst just doesn't fit or look that great. It kind of disengages you from the game with a jarring *POOF* and then some weird circle, it almost feels as if you are buffering a video and then it suddenly skips 3 seconds ahead to compare. And the effect doesn't need to be present on every enemy either. I have grown to get used and adapt to the sub-par zoom, very glad that we may be able to see a fix, really the only thing that actually needs to be changed is the closest and furthest zoom levels though since they are.... a little nonsensical. |
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Post by Kelsoo on Feb 13, 2014 19:35:55 GMT -5
I have some suggestions. Gonna make them straight and to the point. 1. Nerf missiles. Especially the ones from the little pink tanks. It's a minion. It should NOT be able to completely wipe my shield and take down a third of my health in one hit. 2. Nerf overall minion DPS. Way back when, people could solo things with relative ease unless they screwed up, and now, if you try to go and kill even an Alpha fortress, the minions wreck you immediately and you have to back out because they can kill you within 3 seconds. It should not be like that. I know that this game is based off of co-op, but soloing should still be relatively easy. I mean, granted, you shouldn't be able to solo stronger fortresses without backing out for a break, but an Alpha? Give me a break. 3. Slightly decrease Exterminator damage (the blood-red orbs that almost kill you upon hitting you) so that rushing doesn't cost you your pulches every time you attempt it. 4. Decrease the time it takes for Trailblazer's cloak trigger to regenerate. It's a scouting tank, and thus, should be able to cloak often. 5. Make both of Kraken's turrets shoot all enemies. I understand that Kraken is meant to be a minion-killer, but nobody likes it because of how lackluster it's damage is. And besides, minions keep getting buffed, which makes Kraken even more useless. This actually applies to quite a few tanks. 6. If you're going to keep buffing minions and... All enemies, give the tanks a shield buff or something. Ok, I think I'm done ranting now. Okay, so before I get to the quoting, in regards to the PM thing that everyone wants now for whatever reason, cool I knew it was coming, just make sure to add the ability to ignore people. Maybe see about fixing that chat scroll bug to if possible. Alright so israphial most of these are complaints about the general difficulty of the game and I get most of them, though I think alot of these are just from playing the game in a much different state months back and jumping into essentially a much more altered version. 1. Okay so no, the only missiles that need any changing are the ones from the maze region, and then more visibility for the butcher class stations. Refer to this thread grid12.proboards.com/post/4195/thread . As for the Desolation outposts, the whole point behind them is that the minions basically are the station, and the missiles they shoot are actually quite a little to easy IMO to dodge, considering they are acting as the station. I believe the missiles are at the perfect damage, maybe a slight nerf to how many are able to be fired at once is needed. Other than that that statement that its a minion therefore it should not do alot of damage isn't really valid. That's the idea of that enemy. 2. Use better tanks? No, what you may be seeing as added difficulty was the addition of minion wander which for some reason has really changed alot of how the game is played. The game is easy enough, it should not be made easier. If you are encountering trouble soloing it is most likely due to coming back after such a long time, and using tanks that aren't considered "solo tanks" 3. Yes. I've already made a few comments about these things. Mainly I would like to see decreased shot speed or RoF. 4. No, you are scouting wrong or inefficiently, it's a learning process. Refer to tarbomb videos. I know nothing about the Kraken because unlocking tanks takes very long when you are unlucky. 6. Minions do not keep getting buffed. The game has been changed, minion wander is the biggest effect and what has made it actually somewhat challenging. The problem is that alot of tanks have yet to be updated to be useful. The tanks that are, are the ones that when used, you can tell the game has a major lack of challenge in non endgame or maze regions. (even endgame is kind of a joke once you have had a few runs) |
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Post by israphial on Feb 13, 2014 20:53:48 GMT -5
Yes, I suppose you're right, Kelsoo. I did sort of retire around build 63, when scouting rewards were buffed, and VP removed. To be honest, I just don't like Trailblazer. I enjoy clearing stuff and soloing stuff more than I do scouting constantly. I may give it another try some time, but scouting just isn't my style. And the problem with fortresses in general is that tank shields just get absolutely WRECKED now. I mean, go and try to kill an Alpha with a Corsair. Immediately, your big shield is going to get depleted, leaving 4/5 of your shield down, rendering you extremely vulnerable. 150 shield power simply doesn't cut it anymore, in my opinion. What is a good soloing tank in your opinion, Kelsoo? I got guardian earlier (All I have to get now is Vindicator and Thunderbolt!! ) and I'm actually really enjoying it because I feel like I can solo things without getting wrecked immediately. I guess Phantom is also a pretty good solo tank, but once you run out of your cloak, your outer shields are insta-killed. |
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Build 86
Feb 14, 2014 10:37:30 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Kelsoo on Feb 14, 2014 10:37:30 GMT -5
Yes, I suppose you're right, Kelsoo. I did sort of retire around build 63, when scouting rewards were buffed, and VP removed. To be honest, I just don't like Trailblazer. I enjoy clearing stuff and soloing stuff more than I do scouting constantly. I may give it another try some time, but scouting just isn't my style. And the problem with fortresses in general is that tank shields just get absolutely WRECKED now. I mean, go and try to kill an Alpha with a Corsair. Immediately, your big shield is going to get depleted, leaving 4/5 of your shield down, rendering you extremely vulnerable. 150 shield power simply doesn't cut it anymore, in my opinion. What is a good soloing tank in your opinion, Kelsoo? I got guardian earlier (All I have to get now is Vindicator and Thunderbolt!! ) and I'm actually really enjoying it because I feel like I can solo things without getting wrecked immediately. I guess Phantom is also a pretty good solo tank, but once you run out of your cloak, your outer shields are insta-killed. Yeah, I don't blame you, often I only scout to look for Deltas, though the Trail has been seeing a lot of use from me because of the addition of maze regions where you basically have to scout them. As for the fortress clearing it definitely is much much harder than before, even for the puny beta stations. You just have to find the right strategy. And if you're talking about the outer big shield that is grayish on the cors, that's why. Problem A Is the fact that the Cors really isn't designed for clearing, its super useful for convoys and support but its DPS is too low to use it on its own You're outer shield is incredibly weak so you are relying on others to kind of tank for you. What you are pointing out isn't really tank balance issues (which the game does have) but class issues. Use the right tool for the job, Cors isn't meant to be useful in solo clearing, it doesn't mean it needs a buff, it just means it needs to be used for what it was designed for. The Phantom, Predator, Viking, Valk are what I can suggest. But that doesn't mean there are no alternatives. Most of these tanks are considered good to solo with and just good in general to have. The Guardian is super fun to use, and can hold its own, the problem I have is that you have to rely on RNG to kill a lot of the smaller fortresses so I'm not sure if its a total viable solo tank. It sure is a fun one though. |
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Post by tarbomb on Feb 14, 2014 13:19:40 GMT -5
The Phantom, Predator, Viking, Valk are what I can suggest. But that doesn't mean there are no alternatives. Most of these tanks are considered good to solo with and just good in general to have. The Guardian is super fun to use, and can hold its own, the problem I have is that you have to rely on RNG to kill a lot of the smaller fortresses so I'm not sure if its a total viable solo tank. It sure is a fun one though. Agreed on most counts, but don't even bother taking valkyrie out in its current form. It seems to do the worst DPS in the game. Add minotaur to that list of good clearing tanks, too. |
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Post by uberzolik on Feb 14, 2014 13:23:13 GMT -5
I'm not really sure if this is known yet, but that bug where the chat snaps to the top happens if you try to teleport to someone or something and the chat is on top of that same area. It probably puts focus on the chat, so when you press w it snaps to the top.
Edit: I did more testing with this, and only [w] seems to affect the chat, which is weird. All other movement keys don't affect it at all. As a side note, I think that you should only make the chat focus if you opened the chat to type a message, as in pressing enter, and having only page up/page down scroll it rather than the mouse wheel. It would solve the issue where scrolling the chat also scrolls your view, along with (most likely?) getting rid of that annoying snap-to-the-top issue since you wouldn't be able to accidentally click (and thus put focus on) the chat.
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Post by tarbomb on Feb 14, 2014 18:32:16 GMT -5
I really, really want to have a way to exclude items from automelding. I have a meldchain leading up to a level 20 tank, but I want to keep it unmelded for now so I'll be ready to unlock whatever tank comes out next. One stray click could ruin this.
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