Build 89

[rob]

Hi there, Brave Testers!

Tim just pushed build 89 of Grid12. Changes include:

* Add new keyboard-remapping facility
* Add new "war materiel" quests in maze regions
* Increase required convoy boss kills to 250
* Fix bug where some missiles were not flying

Tim worked long and hard on the keyboard remapping stuff. Let's reward him by finding bugs in it! (We are already aware that unbinding a primary key will cause the secondary key to "move over" into the primary slot.)

I added 3x5 quests to the maze regions. They will start to appear after a maze is 20% cleared, at a 5% chance per fortress kill. I'm hoping (after some refactoring to have supply caches and subcommanders use the same new code) to add some more map-based minigames to the maze region.

We are starting to prep for GDC. If you'll be there, it might be fun to meet up.

As always, thanks so much for playing. We really appreciate the help.

Rob & Tim
Jetbolt Games

[tarbomb]

I haven't seen any bugs with the keybinding customization system yet, but the interface is painful to use (colors/font make characters hard to read, and the new window that pops up when you want to assign a new key).

Primary and secondary keybindings are great. With the plethora of new settings, it would be great for settings to be stored server-side, too, so I don't have to reset my settings every time my cookies get nuked.

We don't have a maze region that's 20% cleared yet so I'll report back when I see one of the new maze quests.

I'm looking forward to seeing what you two come up with next.

PS: What are your keybindings like? Here's mine, optimized for left hand control of everything except movement (which is controlled by my right hand on the mouse).

[rob]

Keyboard settings should already be stored server side. Try it from a different computer.

[trapped]

Mar 6, 2014 14:45:32 GMT -5 rob said:

We are starting to prep for GDC. If you'll be there, it might be fun to meet up.

Too bad it's in San Francisco and so soon.
It would really have been fun for me to meet our lord, Rob, and throw him a million questions most of which he wouldn't want to reply to.
I would've tried to organize something if I knew it earlier, but I guess there will be another chance in the future.

[Crunch]

Mine is set up for mouse-less playing. Left hand moves via WASD and right hand handles triggers/crystals on the Numpad. 
I've been playing this setup for a while via AHK, which I'm glad I don't need anymore. 



Great job, Rob/Tim! I'm excited to see the other changes. 

[Will]

Sweet, nice job the remapping, and what is "War Materiel?"

EDIT: For some reason I can't play on flash player because it says "Old Build" but the browser updates automatically. Not sure what to do. It keeps on saying build 88 w/ the flash player even after repeated reloads but Chrome is fine. Doesn't make too much sense.

EDIT #2: Saw on Roadmap you guys are going to nerf the Tbolt ;(
I would think the only thing that is really overpowered about it is the second trigger. It does double damage and double rate of fire. Maybe reduce it to 1.5x for each? I dunno.

[trapped]

Mar 6, 2014 17:26:10 GMT -5 Will said:

Sweet, nice job the remapping, and what is "War Materiel?"

EDIT: For some reason I can't play on flash player because it says "Old Build" but the browser updates automatically. Not sure what to do. It keeps on saying build 88 w/ the flash player even after repeated reloads but Chrome is fine. Doesn't make too much sense.

EDIT #2: Saw on Roadmap you guys are going to nerf the Tbolt ;(
I would think the only thing that is really overpowered about it is the second trigger. It does double damage and double rate of fire. Maybe reduce it to 1.5x for each? I dunno.

Ah, didn't understand what you asked help for earlier. Just delete Chrome's cache, it should work. Thought you wanted to delete the Flash Player's cache.

[Will]

I want to play on standalone Flash Player. Everytime I load the swf, it says that Grid12 is build 88 for some reason...

EDIT: Ah ha! Found the cache and I got it!

[Will]

Ok, so I thought over the prospect of nerfing Tbolt and Guardian and buffing Spectre and Kraken.

Here's what I propose:

If the Spectre is going to be buffed, then the Hornet should too. Think about it. The Spectre has better shields with more DPS than the Hornet with the inclusion of a DPS buff, and if a DPS buff is in order then it should go like this:

Tbolt: 75 --> 70
Spectre: 75 --> 80
Hornet: 76.66 --> 85

I say this because the buff of the Spectre by any amount makes the Hornet basically pointless, and, while I agree that the Tbolt needs to be nerfed a little bit, I just think that the overall balance of the game is messed up with a Spectre DPS boost in combination w/ the Tbolt being nerfed. While Tbolt has better shields and should have worse DPS than the Spectre and Hornet, the overall balance between the "Single Cannon" Tanks is messed up when you buff the Spectre and don't buff the Hornet at the same time. I think making the Spectre have 80 DPS and maybe faster regen rates for the shields would make it very useful, or perhaps the addition of 2 AntiMinion guns that do 15 DPS each would make the Spectre more viable in combat, because the main issue really isn't so much shields but just the fact that the MainGun seemingly shoots where it pleases and where it pleases is not at the main enemy in most cases where there are walls or Drills. Designated targeting would be a cool feature for the Spectre and there must be some way to put that into the game for just the Spectre.

Now, the nerfing of the Guardian is also something I thought was needed. In reality, the Cannon on the Guardian should do 150 per shot with 2 sec CD for each shot. This would nerf the cannon significantly, decreasing the effects of CD augments but also increasing the effects of things like modules at the same time. (gun_rof,1.05) The Kraken DOESN'T need a Minion Gun boost. Believe me, it's horrifyingly efficient at the disposal of minions. But what I think it does need is a MainGun boost to around 65 or 60. This would put the Kraken on par with the likes of Paladin and Corsair for MainEnemy damage (The other two being tanks that can also heal and have similar shield functionality)

Overall, when buffing or nerfing tanks, one has to take into account tanks that serve a similar purpose, and this is my Thesis.

[tarbomb]

Seems like keymap settings being corrupted somehow between refreshes.

[Kelsoo]

Mar 6, 2014 21:00:54 GMT -5 tarbomb said:

Seems like keymap settings being corrupted somehow between refreshes.

Yes, for me the only keybinding that sticks is Orgin, triggers and everything else reset upon refresh regardless of being set to second or primary.

On another note, I'm not sure war materials should spawn in maze regions, maybe keeping them as the enemies "stronghold" where as the other regions we are just trying to regain, and their strongholds have alternate rewards or more upgrade focused ones, just an idea for region variety.

Fixed, thank you Tim!

[Kelsoo]

Alright so I saw tank balance, if this is going to be an annual "gather up all of the tanks every few builds or so and drop the balance bomb on them" then oh boy do I have the rant for you. So let's talk tank balance.

I have made many posts regarding this, I will be copying from some older posts and editing them with the addition of adding new ones and etc.

Fury : If you were to start by buffing tanks, I would have to start here, it is disgusting, the Fury is not only outclassed and outmatched, it is just straight up useless on almost all content. While it can kind of hold its own, this tank needs work, "kind of" doesn't cut it in a game where you want the best. The Fury is one of those tanks. I used to consider it a better Phantom back before the Phantom was born again. Though it still wasn't that great of a tank, obviously now the Phantom is a much different tank than it was, and the Fury is still pretty mediocre (a little worse than mediocre, sub par maybe), and in a game revolving around only using the optimal tanks or getting the highest possible DPS, this tank has problems.

So, the Fury can feasibly solo all regular structures in game, and can even be used on Zeta's and Omnis. That doesn't mean it should though. While it can solo most structures in game it does so with extreme boredom and monotony, having to constantly (especially for a tank that is supposed to be somewhat beefy) leave the battlefield to regenerate it's shields. With a useless 2nd trigger, shields that do not pair well with it's DPS and turret structure. You get a tank that can be used, but it really isn't a help to the team, or itself.

My opinion on what can happen to improve this tank goes as.

- Kill the second trigger off. There is no use whatsoever for a immobilization mine in this game at all, and while at it why not remove it from the Herc as well (you could even go as far as saying that paralyze is overall not that useful of an effect in the game without a stun, or without being used on convoys/ moving targets such as patrols. Though even then a immobilization mine would not be useful on those encounters), and it is almost never used by most players, even in the situations where it could be even slightly useful. Replace it with an invincibility trigger (as opposed to invis) to add beefiness to the tank (without letting it immediately recharge shields) and also play support. Or something else.

- Increase the beef of the inner shields, or all. I hesitate to say this as I wouldn't want to end up with a redo of the Phantom. So increase them slightly.

- Change trigger one to do more damage to minions as opposed to structures? As well as increase regular DPS and reduce triggered DPS.

Hercules : Okay, so this is tank that is not so much in need of a buff, but needs to get out of the archaic state it currently is in, it's still living in the past, way before build 75 or so, it was a pretty alright/10 tank back when it first got its buff, but now, while a tank that doesn't necessarily have much wrong with it, we have to go back to what the game revolves around, using the best tank for the job.

Obviously you can't make every tank unique in purpose. So you have to take another approach, like say, compare the Predator and the Viking, they are on even ground, so you can choose which to use and you have diversity, the Herc on the other hand is not on even ground with its counterparts, instead it is sub-par to those, and thus inferior. The Herc as I said before, just needs slight changes to make it viable for new content.

So what changes could be made?

- Trigger 4. In theory really just making this trigger useful could be all the Herc needs. But you can always change other things with this, and this does need to be changed. I already stated before the whole immobilization mine thing, useless and pointless, especially in this games state, there is just no point in it. Revamping it to a paralyze akin to an Avengers would work just fine, but in truth what use is paralyze to any tank that doesn't have a stun to go with it, or is designed for scouting?

My idea? Why not make the trigger give the Herc temporary shields that go away once they are taken out (not stacking of course). If this is possible to be done, it would be kind of cool, it could make the Herc a better tank for your friends, and give it some boost, though I can see this getting overpowered if not handled properly. Or instead change it to a trigger that lets you ram enemies, maybe giving the tank a speed boost to go with it, and you can ram minions only, killing them instantly and dealing a small amount of damage to the Herc, turning it into a sort of Godzilla.

The point here being, the Herc's current source of damage is only trigger 1, it is pointless to use it without the bomb, so why not let it get in deep to plant that bomb, and add variety.

- Trigger 3. The only problem I have with this is the fact that it charges incredibly slow, and combining it with other triggers doesn't work as well as you would think. It doesn't even really save you at all, either make it better or change the recharge time, perhaps just revamping the way it works, as I think a HP regeneration trigger is a good idea.

Dragon : Okay so the Dragon. An okey tank. Its okey, but not really... its okay. For starters this thing shouldn't even have gun's since they are so useless, this tank could benefit from the lost weight... and with what I propose you could rid it of them as well. Anyways it is plagued by the trigger problem very badly, tanks based on triggers tend to be absolute shit without them, and as a result fall. Even the Wildfire after the buff to its base DPS is useless without triggers.

So what to do about it? This is a hard one for me, I don't really know, I mean its trigger's are fine I guess, trigger four is useful in some situations just because of having to get in close to use trigger 1...

- What about making it shoot slow fire around its self Valk style, just in an Extreme Prejudice way, make it low damage and range and shoot out everywhere that isn't guarded by the front shield, since the other two are useless. Adds better crowd control and makes this tank okay without trigger 1.

With this tank I get the feeling that what you guys were going for was a tank that was more than just "use triggers get actual usable DPS" instead making the tank literally only useful with triggers, essentially a trigger based tank completely and throughout. And this is where I would want to propose a different idea.. one that I think could make this a really interesting tank.

Add more triggers, maybe 2 more, kill off the gun and make it rely on strategic use of these triggers, make the player have to use the triggers in the right situations. Make these triggers whatever you see fit. And there is a reason I propose just to add more triggers instead of replace trigger X with Y because normally that is what most tanks need or could just benefit from, but this tank actually kind of needs its current four trigger's and makes use of them, see where I'm going? Removing one in favor of a better one could ruin the tank or make it OP or just make the situation worse.

Scorpion : So another weird one, on one hand you have an invincible tank, on the other... why? Why does this tank really even exist, it isn't bad I guess, and is there something wrong with it being invincible? I mean... well here is a use I found for it, and basically the only thing I really use the tank for, it can be used for just about anything keep in mind. With the right amount of patience at least, but in this case this is a tank I use when I don't feel like playing the regular game, and eliminating all danger just to lay back I guess.



This tank could be argued for needing a nerf, or a buff. Or just to be left alone, I'll let you decide.

Alrighty, now before I list the next tanks, there is a small tank that I would like to mention. The Minotaur, this tank isn't dying and in need of urgent care. Only one thing it needs, A small buff to the back shields, ever since the nerf this thing could use a little buff to back shielding to make it a better contender against the Viking and Predator, just a little buffing to the back s'all


Okay so now I get to hit my favorite tank topic and class. The tanks suffering from Vietnam PTSD, that is, the convoy tanks. Oh how the mighty have fallen, and they need your help! Now, before I get 20 responses about how in World Build x convoys came out of extinction and roamed the Grid again, let it be known that yes I am aware convoys have been revived by our almighty Devs and are now living under a better light.

But A. They are not even close to how they used to be, and at most they are a minigame of sorts and really are being kept from going back to extreme endangerment because they are a game goal. Yes they are finally not being totally ignored but they still are not a main focus. And B. The way players tackle convoys has evolved, strategies of a frontal assault have become much more common with players wanting the fastest way and not safest (especially when the convoy trail is to short to be done safely) way of killing them. And as such these tanks no longer have much use, even having other tanks take their place on the battlefield in convoy fights from behind.

They are much like the Hercules, they need to evolve and serve better use on todays Grid, and tomorrows future. They are the Avenger, the Paladin, and the Cutlass. The Cutlass just being shit anyways even on convoys, even having the, STILL , Trailblazer favored over it, not just because the Trail is decent at voys, but the Cutlass is just *that* bad.


EDIT: Wildfires lighting is completely useless, not like the tank needs a buff, but that lightning, even triggered is completely useless and serves no point, it can't keep minions away if they didn't fire

Oh and last thing, nerf the hell out of the Oblivion doom fortress, I get the whole difficult content thing, but those enemies are the devil incarnate, they don't even make sense, one blast deals enough damage to go more than halfway across a pulched and auged Herc, and it does it 3 times or so a second? With an overkill range. You can either add better loot to suit the challenge (a guaranteed pulch or two, and some better augs?) Or nerf em.

[tim]

I just did a fix for the bindings not saving issue. All old custom bindings have been deleted, but new ones should save correctly.

[tarbomb]

Mar 7, 2014 15:25:57 GMT -5 tim said:

I just did a fix for the bindings not saving issue. All old custom bindings have been deleted, but new ones should save correctly.

That seems to have fixed it. Thanks, Tim!

[zub]

After one build inertia, nerfing rewards for convoy route clearing provided expected outcome, nobody clears them anymore.