Build 122

[rob]

Greetings, Brave Testers! Welcome to build 122!

* Add warp gates
* Add Contagion-class Despoilment Annex dungeon boss
* Add Q7 Subcommander

Warp gates are like a combination of wormholes and mineral deposits. They can be scouted, then later connected to the cleared area. When connected, the warp gate opens and leads to a dungeon. The Contagion waits inside.

The Q7 is a new subcommander for orange and red regions. It does a lot of self-healing, and as such will require a lot of DPS to deal with -- bring friends!

We're going to take a few days off for the Thanksgiving holidays. Thanks for playing!

Rob & Tim
Jetbolt Games

[aesc]

The new dungeon boss can easily kill you before your screen has loaded at the moment.

[Zed]

Nov 26, 2014 4:28:08 GMT -5 aesc said:

The new dungeon boss can easily kill you before your screen has loaded at the moment.

A small way up to the subcommander which disappears after a certain amount of time or an inital delay on the spawn time of the Contagion Shooters would be nice.



Other than that, if you apply a Vela shield in the Thunderbolt's outer shield slot, it seems to overlap with the Thunderbolt's front shield.
Not sure which shield depletes first/if they both deplete the same amount from one hit...

An image for refrerence:

[gingerbear]

Okay, because we are actually testers, I guess we should do some testing too?

Current experience without any particular order:

1. Bug: This is an interesting shade of orange.


2. Render error? (Forgot to screenie, sorry)
An unnamed tank icon appeared on the minimap where 2-3 other players teleported when we gathered for a warp gate. It disappeared after we got back to the main map

3. Warp gates:
- I like the fact that connecting gives a ton of XP. That way even new players can get something without having to risk their lives inside.
- I hate the fact that you get shot almost instantly when you get in. Have not died to it yet, but saw someone else do, and I think I would get to the same fate had I lag a bit longer upon entry. Some countermeasurement would be nice.
- The gate fight in itself is a fun experience, I know I enjoy it even alone, and in party too (with 2-3 ppl inside it's pretty easy if you can dodge well, especially if at least 1 player has a stun or kite the main turret wisely. )
- Getting a single tank unlock as a prize is a bit underwhelming (happened 3 times when soloed, once in party), but I'm fine with it, as long as there is a fair chance of getting shields. (I got shields 3x, and shield + tank unlock twice, I think. Shields mostly dropped in party mode. )

4. I hate novas. The middle turret shot and the constant buzz of minions makes it hard to kill on most tanks, and the loot ranges from "crappily crap" to "meh, it's fine i guess". The only reason right now to kill them is to get to a mineral/gate to be cleared or to level a city. Either bumping loot or rethinking mechanics would be nice.

5. Having actually 2 full pages in long term storage gives a lot of space to farm stuff, which makes me linger around longer because "i want to meld just THIS more... oh and maybe this... alright, just one more for this.... DAMN, it's 3 am". I don't think it's a good thing for people who are completionists and a bit perfectionists (I am one, to some degree), but it is an enjoyable state. Or at least there is an almost constant sense of progress, even if it's only making a new module a day, or so.

[Deleted]

Before it was blank, now it reads 'Orange'. How hard can it be to spell 'red'?

[Will]

Rob I was thinking about something regarding the penalty for death in Grid 12. The status quo is not gonna work. Here's why:

The concept is great, and should be left in the game, but the penalty for dying on a tank like the Dragon or the Tbolt is too much compared to how powerful both tanks are. The Mustang is currently the strongest tank in the game, and all you need is a level 1 tank to re-unlock it. The issue I have is this: because of the penalty upon death, there is no reason to use any tanks that are above level 3 for unlock after death.

The risk to reward ratio for these higher level tanks is no where near as good as it is for the likes of the Mustang or the Valk or the Corsair besides the Cutlass which is godly but is a bit risky to use. All tanks above level 3 unlocks should be buffed and all should be more powerful than their lower level counterparts. I just think that no one will utilize tanks like the Paladin, Minotaur, Kraken, or really any of them besides Cutlass with the risk so high.

Players should have a reason to risk losing a level 5 or 4 or maybe even 3 tank unlock. Otherwise, only the level 1 and 2 unlock tanks will be used. Players like aesc are an exception, but players who are middling in skill like me just don't see why they should risk the loss of these tanks. I mained Tbolt for months and now I just don't understand why I should risk dying on it when I could play a more powerful tank like the Mustang with less risk.

[gingerbear]

Hi Will!

I think I'm nowhere near to a position to give you a reply (since you addressed Rob), but I'd like to bring in some other points too.

In the current state of the game, you won't be easily getting level 4-5 tanks, unless you tag along with the veterans and manage not to die, or you farm really lot. Both cases mean you are now somewhat experienced in dodging bullets, and also know what to expect from the enemies. Which means, the threat of losing a high level tank is just about the same as losing any tank. Yeah, having to replace it sucks when you die, but it will be an important lesson to you about that tank next time you re-unlock it. I wouldn't be afraid of having to farm tank unlocks that much, at least I always seem to have around enough for those in the rare case I die with high tier, I assume it would be same for everyone after a time of practice. And in worst case, you can always buy them on the market (let's assume that when enough people plays, there will be a surplus of tank offers.).

Your point about higher "reward" for high tier tanks is valid, but the argument could go both ways: if you get a high tier tank with which you can delete the map, why would you play low tier tanks? You will farm enough anyway to replace it, even more so if it's indeed a buffed one.

About mustang: I think there is a need for a good low tier tank to keep new players engaged. Mustang is good, but it's not almighty: you can die with it just as easily in crowd or at focused damage, and it's not particularly good against flying bosses (convoys and patrols). I know we don't speak about RotMG (at least I won't do without a good reason), but the first class you started with there was the wizard. It has a good range and an insane damage when farmed up. Why would you play anything else when you can be a wizard? Of course the reasoning is faulty, but you get my point.

Some tanks being OP is only interesting in solo situations. I personally like the different gameplays each tank offers, and I too would like some other tanks get buffed. However, in my experience, in mob situations (At least 4 players chasing a convoy, clear a sector, fight a boss, etc.), it does not really matter which tank you are using, as long as there are some experienced players who "carry", so you can just have fun playing your own style. Assuming again that there will be small groups everywhere on the map (I find 5-6 players in one place a manageable size), there will be endless opportunities to play what you like and how you like, and I doubt you'd care of "wow, this is OP", you'd focus more on "wow, this looks cool", and wouldn't bother much.

[Will]

Nov 30, 2014 9:52:28 GMT -5 gingerbear said:

Hi Will!

I think I'm nowhere near to a position to give you a reply (since you addressed Rob), but I'd like to bring in some other points too.

In the current state of the game, you won't be easily getting level 4-5 tanks, unless you tag along with the veterans and manage not to die, or you farm really lot. Both cases mean you are now somewhat experienced in dodging bullets, and also know what to expect from the enemies. Which means, the threat of losing a high level tank is just about the same as losing any tank. Yeah, having to replace it sucks when you die, but it will be an important lesson to you about that tank next time you re-unlock it. I wouldn't be afraid of having to farm tank unlocks that much, at least I always seem to have around enough for those in the rare case I die with high tier, I assume it would be same for everyone after a time of practice. And in worst case, you can always buy them on the market (let's assume that when enough people plays, there will be a surplus of tank offers.).

Your point about higher "reward" for high tier tanks is valid, but the argument could go both ways: if you get a high tier tank with which you can delete the map, why would you play low tier tanks? You will farm enough anyway to replace it, even more so if it's indeed a buffed one.

About mustang: I think there is a need for a good low tier tank to keep new players engaged. Mustang is good, but it's not almighty: you can die with it just as easily in crowd or at focused damage, and it's not particularly good against flying bosses (convoys and patrols). I know we don't speak about RotMG (at least I won't do without a good reason), but the first class you started with there was the wizard. It has a good range and an insane damage when farmed up. Why would you play anything else when you can be a wizard? Of course the reasoning is faulty, but you get my point.

Some tanks being OP is only interesting in solo situations. I personally like the different gameplays each tank offers, and I too would like some other tanks get buffed. However, in my experience, in mob situations (At least 4 players chasing a convoy, clear a sector, fight a boss, etc.), it does not really matter which tank you are using, as long as there are some experienced players who "carry", so you can just have fun playing your own style. Assuming again that there will be small groups everywhere on the map (I find 5-6 players in one place a manageable size), there will be endless opportunities to play what you like and how you like, and I doubt you'd care of "wow, this is OP", you'd focus more on "wow, this looks cool", and wouldn't bother much.

Yeah, it's hard to gauge just how many people will be online at a given time and I guess I was just talking about how well the tanks do solo. But you're right about how if people get in groups then stuff just gets cleared out so easily already that buffing some of these higher tier tanks would reduce to this game to pressing "W" the whole time. I guess the REAL issue is that people just don't want to play support tanks like Pally, Kraken or Hurricane because everyone wants to deal the damage. The only instances I remember where someone would make a point of playing a support tank was when wall farming was going on. The sad thing is that wall farming was the greatest display of teamwork and collaboration this game has ever had, and now it's essentially gone from the game as oblivion class batman shooters stop the endless wall path around the region. Point is, maybe there should be more of an incentive to play these tanks. Buff the healing abilities perhaps? The crowd control? The missile gun? (Hurricane)

I think what I was trying to say was this:

To go off your point about Rotmg, it's not that we shouldn't play Sorc when we have Wizard, it's why should we play a maxed character that we worked so hard on when we can just play an unmaxed character that has nearly the same strength. See what I mean? The reward for the hard work of getting 32 Mustangs should be a tank that is substantially more powerful or useful than the Mustang. Maybe the solution is not to buff the DPS of some of the higher tier tanks, but the shields. Tanks like the MInotaur and Kraken have awful shields, which is just another reason you never see them in use. Perhaps all higher tier tanks get a shield boost of some sort or a shield re-alignment? I could specify but for now I'll leave it at that.

Good point about the DPS issue though, regions would just get cleared so quickly and there would be no reason to utilize lower level tanks.

[gingerbear]

Ah I see your point.

I, too, played guardian in the great labyrinth clearing events (and I guess never more afterwards), and sad that noone ever bothers with that region any more. Guess we just need enthusiastic population to try these and see what happens.

I think shields could be a good point to get buffed, it might be moot with the new custom applicable shields, though. I mean, I put a level 2-3 Vela shield on a Hornet (both inner and outer), and BAM! the annoying front opening is gone and it was fun playing (until I got killed. Meh.). I saw in the roadmap that maaybe we get custom installable guns too, that could help the weaker tanks to get played too.

However, I think the best course would be to reevaluate how each individual tank fits (or does not) in the current gameplay, and find solutions to balnce them if they seem to lag behind. I also have some ideas how to do that, so maybe we should start a new thread with rebalancing ideas?

[Will]

Nov 30, 2014 13:15:10 GMT -5 gingerbear said:

Ah I see your point.

I, too, played guardian in the great labyrinth clearing events (and I guess never more afterwards), and sad that noone ever bothers with that region any more. Guess we just need enthusiastic population to try these and see what happens.

I think shields could be a good point to get buffed, it might be moot with the new custom applicable shields, though. I mean, I put a level 2-3 Vela shield on a Hornet (both inner and outer), and BAM! the annoying front opening is gone and it was fun playing (until I got killed. Meh.). I saw in the roadmap that maaybe we get custom installable guns too, that could help the weaker tanks to get played too.

However, I think the best course would be to reevaluate how each individual tank fits (or does not) in the current gameplay, and find solutions to balnce them if they seem to lag behind. I also have some ideas how to do that, so maybe we should start a new thread with rebalancing ideas?

Yeah, we should, but custom installable guns? That sounds sweeeeeeet.

[rob]

Maybe just make Mustang be level 2? Or 3? Or 4?

[Will]

You could just do that for now, like move Mustang to level 2 unlock and see how it goes, but I think in the long term tanks like Pally might need some buffs.

[tribow]

Nov 30, 2014 12:45:56 GMT -5 Will said:

Nov 30, 2014 9:52:28 GMT -5 gingerbear said:

Hi Will!

I think I'm nowhere near to a position to give you a reply (since you addressed Rob), but I'd like to bring in some other points too.

In the current state of the game, you won't be easily getting level 4-5 tanks, unless you tag along with the veterans and manage not to die, or you farm really lot. Both cases mean you are now somewhat experienced in dodging bullets, and also know what to expect from the enemies. Which means, the threat of losing a high level tank is just about the same as losing any tank. Yeah, having to replace it sucks when you die, but it will be an important lesson to you about that tank next time you re-unlock it. I wouldn't be afraid of having to farm tank unlocks that much, at least I always seem to have around enough for those in the rare case I die with high tier, I assume it would be same for everyone after a time of practice. And in worst case, you can always buy them on the market (let's assume that when enough people plays, there will be a surplus of tank offers.).

Your point about higher "reward" for high tier tanks is valid, but the argument could go both ways: if you get a high tier tank with which you can delete the map, why would you play low tier tanks? You will farm enough anyway to replace it, even more so if it's indeed a buffed one.

About mustang: I think there is a need for a good low tier tank to keep new players engaged. Mustang is good, but it's not almighty: you can die with it just as easily in crowd or at focused damage, and it's not particularly good against flying bosses (convoys and patrols). I know we don't speak about RotMG (at least I won't do without a good reason), but the first class you started with there was the wizard. It has a good range and an insane damage when farmed up. Why would you play anything else when you can be a wizard? Of course the reasoning is faulty, but you get my point.

Some tanks being OP is only interesting in solo situations. I personally like the different gameplays each tank offers, and I too would like some other tanks get buffed. However, in my experience, in mob situations (At least 4 players chasing a convoy, clear a sector, fight a boss, etc.), it does not really matter which tank you are using, as long as there are some experienced players who "carry", so you can just have fun playing your own style. Assuming again that there will be small groups everywhere on the map (I find 5-6 players in one place a manageable size), there will be endless opportunities to play what you like and how you like, and I doubt you'd care of "wow, this is OP", you'd focus more on "wow, this looks cool", and wouldn't bother much.

Yeah, it's hard to gauge just how many people will be online at a given time and I guess I was just talking about how well the tanks do solo. But you're right about how if people get in groups then stuff just gets cleared out so easily already that buffing some of these higher tier tanks would reduce to this game to pressing "W" the whole time. I guess the REAL issue is that people just don't want to play support tanks like Pally, Kraken or Hurricane because everyone wants to deal the damage. The only instances I remember where someone would make a point of playing a support tank was when wall farming was going on. The sad thing is that wall farming was the greatest display of teamwork and collaboration this game has ever had, and now it's essentially gone from the game as oblivion class batman shooters stop the endless wall path around the region. Point is, maybe there should be more of an incentive to play these tanks. Buff the healing abilities perhaps? The crowd control? The missile gun? (Hurricane)

I think what I was trying to say was this:

To go off your point about Rotmg, it's not that we shouldn't play Sorc when we have Wizard, it's why should we play a maxed character that we worked so hard on when we can just play an unmaxed character that has nearly the same strength. See what I mean? The reward for the hard work of getting 32 Mustangs should be a tank that is substantially more powerful or useful than the Mustang. Maybe the solution is not to buff the DPS of some of the higher tier tanks, but the shields. Tanks like the MInotaur and Kraken have awful shields, which is just another reason you never see them in use. Perhaps all higher tier tanks get a shield boost of some sort or a shield re-alignment? I could specify but for now I'll leave it at that.

Good point about the DPS issue though, regions would just get cleared so quickly and there would be no reason to utilize lower level tanks.

Oh wow

That means I really am the only one that has used the kraken/guardian/pally as of yet.

Lol

EDIT: Wait quick question, what would happen if like 10 people fought a gct/nova? Is there a cap for how high it can buff itself?