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Post by rob on Mar 11, 2015 15:00:00 GMT -5
Hey everyone! I'm back from GDC and Tim and I are happy to present build 134! Changes include:
* Trigger and weapon items
World's shortest changelist, right?
When you reach certain levels in a tank, your weapon and trigger slots open up. You may install one of each, and you lose them when you die (but see below). Weapons are currently invisible on your tank, but they automatically aim and fire just like a normal tank gun. The 5th trigger button shows up next to the others and has a remappable hotkey (default 5).
Weapons and triggers drop as items. The Decimator (in 2 dungeons both accessed via wormholes) drops weapons, while the Annihilator (accessed by crafted Lucent Chamber Gate items) drops triggers. Shield drops have been moved to the Contagion, which you access via warp gates.
We currently have three weapons and three triggers. The weapons are a Hornet-like sniper rifle (but with less damage and range), a Hurricane-like heal gun, and an anti-missile gun that covers the forward half-circle only. The triggers are a Silver-like atomic blast, a mine projector (single shot and hits buildings and minions like Viking's, but triggered by proximity like Kraken's), and a Corsair-like healburst. All of the weapons and triggers have fairly low rates of fire, but you can increase this by installing higher-level items. Each item level increases the rate of fire by 20% of the base rate. The cooldowns are not shown in the tooltips yet, but we hope to get to that.
Speaking of things we'd like to get to, we are considering having installable items (shields, powerpods, triggers, weapons) simply lose a level at death, rather than going poof. We thought this would give more incentive for people to meld up their items before installing. We are also wondering if modules ought to work the same way. And should there be more that one weapon slot? Should there be more extra trigger slots (maybe 4)?
Thanks for helping us test Grid12! You folks are awesome!
Rob & Tim
Jetbolt Games
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Post by quicklite on Mar 11, 2015 15:51:51 GMT -5
Nice! Now people have a reason to do dungeons! Time to start crafting Lucents  I like modules being a permanent, unchangeable thing, especially since they don't make as much of a difference as an extra trigger or gun would. I like the idea of having a permanent base from which to build up. Though I like everything else being viable to loss upon death. Though having your entire inventory nuked seems like a bit of a harsh death penalty at this point (especially if mods get thrown into the mix). With so many items affected, dying in this game is starting to level realm in penalty, which seems a little harsh, since imo realm's an easier game to stay alive in. Maybe have a max of items deleveled be 3 or 4, and then after that those 4 are selected randomly? Also, an unequip button would be a nice touch, so that deleveled items could be 'repaired' per se. What are your thoughts on the death penalty, rob? What would you like to see as a whole? And for that matter, what gets people prisms these days? I lost a whole bunch after trying to beat a subcommander under heavy lag (not my smartest idea), and it just occurred to me that you can't really just 'get them back' anymore. The process feels quite a bit more randomized now. Not that randomization is always a bad thing, but for something as thoroughly centralized as prisms, it would be nice if there was a distinct way to get them back. PS: And by anti-missle gun, you mean a gun that shoots at enemy missles only, I presume? |
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Will
Intrepid Tester
(n/2)(n)(100) is the equation for how much exp your tank has when "n" = tank level.
Posts: 129
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Post by Will on Mar 11, 2015 17:37:25 GMT -5
Inventory penalty? That's wayyyyy too harsh. That makes this game's penalty harsher than realm in the sense that in realm you can at least put stuff in vaults but in this game all storage is based on what you have in your inventory. I'm talking about permanent storage btw. I have a level 4 Valk mod that I have been melding for months now and to lose that upon death would be ridiculous.
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Post by Crunch on Mar 11, 2015 19:11:11 GMT -5
Inventory penalty? That's wayyyyy too harsh. That makes this game's penalty harsher than realm in the sense that in realm you can at least put stuff in vaults but in this game all storage is based on what you have in your inventory. I'm talking about permanent storage btw. I have a level 4 Valk mod that I have been melding for months now and to lose that upon death would be ridiculous. I am pretty sure that Rob means only items which are equipped to the tank which just died. Right now, you simply lose all shields/pods, regardless of level. Losing only one level upon death seems more fair and less risky for players who would like to meld them to higher levels.
I think QL's idea about melding to an already installed item is pretty great. Although, I disagree with granting the ability to unequip the items, specifically, as that could be abused and used as additional storage. Exciting thought! Lastly, my knee-jerk reaction to losing mod levels on death is pretty negative. I'm not sure if that's just my pride/bias, or if I really think that it's too punishing, but I would like for there to be at least some items which are immune to death penalties. |
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Post by rob on Mar 12, 2015 8:43:18 GMT -5
Tim and I decided to go ahead and implement leveling down installed items at death, but not for modules, at least not yet. One of the anti-level-down reasons was exactly what Crunch said: it's nice to have some items that last through death. Another reason: we could release new module bonuses (currently there are 3 per tank class) every month or three, giving even those players with lots of high level mods an incentive to collect more.
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Post by quicklite on Mar 12, 2015 11:03:23 GMT -5
Inventory penalty? That's wayyyyy too harsh. That makes this game's penalty harsher than realm in the sense that in realm you can at least put stuff in vaults but in this game all storage is based on what you have in your inventory. I'm talking about permanent storage btw. I have a level 4 Valk mod that I have been melding for months now and to lose that upon death would be ridiculous. I am pretty sure that Rob means only items which are equipped to the tank which just died. Right now, you simply lose all shields/pods, regardless of level. Losing only one level upon death seems more fair and less risky for players who would like to meld them to higher levels.
I think QL's idea about melding to an already installed item is pretty great. Although, I disagree with granting the ability to unequip the items, specifically, as that could be abused and used as additional storage. Exciting thought! Lastly, my knee-jerk reaction to losing mod levels on death is pretty negative. I'm not sure if that's just my pride/bias, or if I really think that it's too punishing, but I would like for there to be at least some items which are immune to death penalties. I assume by exploits you're referring to people unequipping all of their mods, doing something stupid for loot, then re-equipping them. That's...a fair point. Didn't think about that. In that case, I agree with ya. Make mods in inventory slots meldable, but you either unequip them or scrap them. As for feedback...I'd like it if patrols were reworked a little bit. I feel like having patrols as things that sorta pop up and then vanish after a minute aren't very fun. Sure, you can chase after them, but clearing tanks can't generally kill or run from patrols. Generally what happens is that you have to z out of there and then switch to a cutlass or something, but by then the patrol is long gone. And besides, there's little reason to actively hunt them, as you can just get better loot from doing something less disruptive. A fun alternative would be to have patrols more of an everpresent threat. When one spawns, it doesn't despawn. It instead circles the region, and divebombs players who attack key targets. I don't like the idea of patrols as just another wandering loot bag, and would love to see some more content where the grid actually fights back, rather than just minding its own business while you systematically kill it. If the game's going to be objective-based (which I'm fine with), I'd like to see a wider variety of objectives outside of stuff giving loot. The core of maze regions is a great example of this. You have to break your way into the region, survive the bullet-hell type core without escaping back, locate and take out the core (which is a rather fun boss fight, so props to that, rob), and you get the reward of the entire region being permanentally crippled. Even though the core itself has a frankly awful lootpool, killing it is one of the most satisfying experiences in the game so far, which speaks for the experience itself. And so I'd like to see that in patrols; you should want to kill them to remove their presence from an already hard region, not because loot. Because if everything's based around loot, then the only 'worthwhile' engagements are the ones with the best loot, which sort of renders the entire game one-dimensional imo. What do you guys think? |
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Post by rob on Mar 12, 2015 11:39:42 GMT -5
(Quicklite, I deleted what appeared to be a duplicate post from you.) Patrols are meant to keep people on their toes, to keep them from getting too comfortable and to make the world a little more unpredictable. They are meant as an annoyance, not a loot source, and it sounds like they are mostly working in that role. A solo player should not be able to take on one of these; a group should be able to challenge one and actually kill it. Region Guardian Armada is an idea which is maybe more what you had in mind. |
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Post by Crunch on Mar 12, 2015 13:00:55 GMT -5
Patrols are meant to keep people on their toes, to keep them from getting too comfortable and to make the world a little more unpredictable. They are meant as an annoyance, not a loot source, and it sounds like they are mostly working in that role. A solo player should not be able to take on one of these; a group should be able to challenge one and actually kill it. In my opinion, the annoyance has more to do with their disappearing act, than perhaps what you intended. Patrols are incredibly easy to avoid, even within Maze regions, where you have limited mobility. They're pretty easy to kill (even as a solo player) as long as the tank is well equipped. It seems that patrol routes assume that players will be sitting still, as most clearing activities lead players out of danger, without them ever even being aware of the patrol. You might consider fine-tuning pat routes to collide with players a little better. Honestly though, patrols don't inspire fear and they're not really a hindrance. I've found that most players welcome the chance to ambush them, even if they were doing something else, across the map... just like convoys. There is an upside to this, even if it's not what you intended. Regardless of loot, Killing patrols is fun, just for the sake of fun, and that's a great thing to learn from and emulate in future updates. QL is right, though, a disappearing patrol is crummy, and feels more like a bug than a feature. Also, it would be an improvement if they didn't seem so apathetic toward players. I would welcome the chance to fight something which actually went all-out in trying to destroy me. At the moment, Grid enemies feel very passive and it would be nice to see a shift toward more proactive/aggressive enemy types. Oh man, G12 needs several varieties of these... stalking in regions, attacking from all sides... Super cool. I've been passively excited about this ticket since I noticed it, but wanted to say that it sounds like a great idea! |
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Post by rob on Mar 12, 2015 14:30:20 GMT -5
Heh, a patrol which chooses a player to punish, firing all guns and missiles at him/her and relentlessly chasing until patrol or victim is dead?
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Post by Crunch on Mar 12, 2015 14:56:44 GMT -5
Heh, a patrol which chooses a player to punish, firing all guns and missiles at him/her and relentlessly chasing until patrol or victim is dead? Please make it so. |
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Post by quicklite on Mar 12, 2015 17:48:52 GMT -5
Heh, a patrol which chooses a player to punish, firing all guns and missiles at him/her and relentlessly chasing until patrol or victim is dead? Main problem is the z button. Generally, when I'm in an unfavorable situation with a patrol, I hit z, teleport back, and then try to find the damn thing again before it poofs. Unless you want the patrol to follow the guy to origin, I can't see how that mechanic would work, unless it systematically targetted every player in a region, which would be hilarious. As for the whole argument about patrols going poof, Crunch made my point far better than I did >_> Although I'm no longer for the re-working if you've got guardian armadas in the works (which look awesome, by the way), I still find that the patrol just dissapearing into thin air after annoying people for a minute just feels generally unsatisfying. When a patrol is located, people should be able to try and hunt it down if with a little bit of leverage without it just flying over a large fort and inexplicably vanishing. If you really want patrols to dissapear spontaneously, at least either make them legitimately run away like escape flotillas, or at the very least make a 'dock' fortress which they flee to. That would give a killable objective and a general mark that you don't want patrols reaching, so losing one would feel a lot more fair than the thing going poof. And yes, that was a duplicate post. Thanks for clearing it up ^^ |
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Will
Intrepid Tester
(n/2)(n)(100) is the equation for how much exp your tank has when "n" = tank level.
Posts: 129
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Post by Will on Mar 27, 2015 14:05:45 GMT -5
Tim and I decided to go ahead and implement leveling down installed items at death, but not for modules, at least not yet. One of the anti-level-down reasons was exactly what Crunch said: it's nice to have some items that last through death. Another reason: we could release new module bonuses (currently there are 3 per tank class) every month or three, giving even those players with lots of high level mods an incentive to collect more. Rob, I thought I'd say something about how mods are being applied. I don't like it. Here's why: To completely max out tank you needed a level 7, level 7, level 8, level 8 mod to get +10 on all bonuses. Now, you need a level 5, level 5, level 10, level 10 to max out. This is insane and you should make it so that the player can distribute points however he/she wants to. I also think that mod points should be able to be re-distributed once while already equipped to a tank since they are permanent and so valuable. I mean, this game is in alpha and I believe that allowing players to play around with what bonuses modules give would be a good way to speed up the process of testing what works and what doesn't. By this I mean it helps players find out which fortresses are a little too powerful because the amount of damage a player deals is heavily weighted on what mods they have in place. Also, it could help in finding what amount of HP new fortresses should have based on the max damage output of a given tank. While we can always calculate these readings, there are many other factors that determine the strength of a given tank(sustainability, shields, triggers, none can really be factored into these calculations). Or, we could also more quickly find what mod bonuses need to be changed or switched out for other bonuses according to the way that people use a tank in general. Maybe people think that the Kraken's mods are pretty useless and need a change/re-balance, but one will never know because no one besides maybe Zed or Aesc have Kraken mods and the both of them can't re-distribute mod points to perhaps maximize the potential of the Kraken. In summation, allowing the player to experiment more with mods and other bonuses could only speed up the testing done by players and make the game better by fixing issues with fortress balance as well as tank balance and module balance. There needs to be balance because without balance it is hard to gauge what effect newer content could have on the game. To perhaps re-clarify this point I present you with the following situation: The Dragon does 1500 DPS (not really, just go with it) and you create a new Region boss that has 15000 HP. Using mods, the Dragon has an invulnerability phase of ~13 seconds (I think). This means a Dragon could kill what is supposed to be the most difficult boss in the game without taking any damage at all in ~10 seconds. But, the potential of the Dragon can only be revealed once a player has the modules to exploit how unbalanced a given tank is. Now, the Dragon is not broken at all, but at the same time it is clear that this tank is not underpowered because players like Zed can utilize the Dragon's long period of invulnerability to do incredible things. Without Zed, there would have been no way to test the actual effectiveness of the Dragon. But, if there were 10 other people using a fully modded Dragon, more exploits and glitches/bugs could be found within the game and these bugs/glitches could be ironed out to perhaps strengthen the integrity of the coding used to run this game. Also, because there are less players due to the fact that this game is in closed alpha, modules and other resources are hard to gather quickly because obtaining these items in nearly dependent solely on luck and grinding, with this grinding amounting to nothing more than wasted time. Just saying. I'm kind of all over the place with this comment but all I'm saying is that testers should be given resources to perhaps create more of a sandbox feeling as opposed to a production feeling during the process of testing this game. |
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Will
Intrepid Tester
(n/2)(n)(100) is the equation for how much exp your tank has when "n" = tank level.
Posts: 129
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Post by Will on Mar 27, 2015 14:09:13 GMT -5
Also, players like Zed and aesc should be given special privileges because they play this game the most out of any tester and giving them more ability to test could only help.
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♥.