Post by linkshot on Feb 21, 2013 15:00:07 GMT -5
I was arguing that, while Grid 12's loot system is fair to all parties, it's not exactly fun to me. I like that Realm has more variety in loot drops.
14:24:30 <Linkshot> I actually don't like that about Grid but won't pitch it to change because it's not my design to touch.
14:24:42 <tarbomb> hrmm.
14:24:52 <tarbomb> I find the feature quite nice actually.
14:25:10 <Linkshot> I'm the kind of person that sacrifices fairness for a little chaos because it's more fun.
14:25:14 <tarbomb> but really, if you have a compelling argument, why not post it? It's not in the design foundations so it'll probably be subject to change anyway.
14:25:31 <Linkshot> We're designing a game, remember. Fun comes first.
14:25:35 <tarbomb> !
14:26:11 <Linkshot> Urgles are totally unfair but they make events more exciting.
14:26:25 <Linkshot> And that's why I pushed them.
14:26:29 <tarbomb> Unfair in what way?
14:26:33 <tarbomb> They're a threat to everybody
14:26:51 <Linkshot> Armor Broken at a Cube/Skull is essentially instant death.
14:27:02 <Linkshot> (Thankfully, AB is the last beam to come out)
14:27:28 <tarbomb> So it's dangerous. Doesn't really make it unfair playerwise, since everybody is affected.
14:27:45 <tarbomb> especially considering that melees already have an easier time in those places than robes
14:27:56 <Linkshot> Assassin isn't really hurt by it. In the same vein, Huntress isn't.
14:28:45 <tarbomb> Hrmm... to be honest, the 'sin is really a class designed around the drop system.
14:28:56 <tarbomb> If anything's unfair, it's the class itself.
14:42:34 <tarbomb> Let's take the civilized discussion back here. #rotmg is degenerating. Again.
14:43:38 <Linkshot> I am going to pitch a merge of our ideals.
14:43:48 <Linkshot> Everybody gets the same bag
14:43:53 <Linkshot> But more people = more loot
14:44:38 <tarbomb> Sounds great
14:44:39 <tarbomb> but...
14:44:47 <tarbomb> ... wouldn't that encourage massive trains a bit too much?
14:44:52 <Linkshot> How about every 5 people would add one more prism to the bag?
14:45:09 <Linkshot> Not really, Tarbomb
14:45:15 <tarbomb> There has to be a limit of sorts
14:45:18 <Linkshot> It would in Realm because of the handy dandy quest marker.
14:45:23 <Linkshot> But in Grid, you have to have a scout.
14:45:52 <tarbomb> How about this? First 5 people = +1 prism. Next 10 people = +2 prism. Next 20 people, etc, etc.
14:46:32 <tarbomb> And as for quest markers, trying to clear to a town already offsets this to some extent. Remember that people tend to cluster in big groups in godlands too, even without a quest marker
14:46:50 <Linkshot> We'll iron out the numbers when we get a grasp on how populated the game will get.
14:47:12 <Linkshot> Gods are different, though.
14:47:22 <Linkshot> Gods don't give Pulchs (Exas in Realm's case)
14:47:41 <tarbomb> Actually, I think that the loot boosts should be in shards and not in prisms.
14:47:52 <Linkshot> Should boost everything.
14:47:53 <tarbomb> Shards are an ultimately cooperative form of loot.
14:47:58 <Linkshot> But Pulchs require more people to get that +1
14:48:02 <tarbomb> How about a random boost?
14:48:17 <Linkshot> Every 5 = extra roll on one random loot piece?
14:48:18 <Linkshot> Sure.
14:48:28 <tarbomb> 50% shard boost, 30% lens boost, 20% prism boost. Or something like that.
14:48:45 <Linkshot> Oh, like for a shard thing?
14:49:02 <tarbomb> Sort of like a lootbooster in realm.
14:49:18 <Linkshot> I could get behind this.
14:49:21 <Linkshot> More people = more shards
14:49:25 <tarbomb> Or instead of the hard 5 person threshold, make it a soft one.
14:49:29 <Linkshot> More shards = more loot boosters being made
14:50:15 <tarbomb> say, teaming up with n person in a set boosts your loot by a factor of log n / log 5
14:50:44 <tarbomb> reduces the effect of massive trains a bit, but doesn't punish people for electing to go in smaller groups
Encourage grouping, make loot more interesting in groups, etc.
14:24:30 <Linkshot> I actually don't like that about Grid but won't pitch it to change because it's not my design to touch.
14:24:42 <tarbomb> hrmm.
14:24:52 <tarbomb> I find the feature quite nice actually.
14:25:10 <Linkshot> I'm the kind of person that sacrifices fairness for a little chaos because it's more fun.
14:25:14 <tarbomb> but really, if you have a compelling argument, why not post it? It's not in the design foundations so it'll probably be subject to change anyway.
14:25:31 <Linkshot> We're designing a game, remember. Fun comes first.
14:25:35 <tarbomb> !
14:26:11 <Linkshot> Urgles are totally unfair but they make events more exciting.
14:26:25 <Linkshot> And that's why I pushed them.
14:26:29 <tarbomb> Unfair in what way?
14:26:33 <tarbomb> They're a threat to everybody
14:26:51 <Linkshot> Armor Broken at a Cube/Skull is essentially instant death.
14:27:02 <Linkshot> (Thankfully, AB is the last beam to come out)
14:27:28 <tarbomb> So it's dangerous. Doesn't really make it unfair playerwise, since everybody is affected.
14:27:45 <tarbomb> especially considering that melees already have an easier time in those places than robes
14:27:56 <Linkshot> Assassin isn't really hurt by it. In the same vein, Huntress isn't.
14:28:45 <tarbomb> Hrmm... to be honest, the 'sin is really a class designed around the drop system.
14:28:56 <tarbomb> If anything's unfair, it's the class itself.
14:42:34 <tarbomb> Let's take the civilized discussion back here. #rotmg is degenerating. Again.
14:43:38 <Linkshot> I am going to pitch a merge of our ideals.
14:43:48 <Linkshot> Everybody gets the same bag
14:43:53 <Linkshot> But more people = more loot
14:44:38 <tarbomb> Sounds great
14:44:39 <tarbomb> but...
14:44:47 <tarbomb> ... wouldn't that encourage massive trains a bit too much?
14:44:52 <Linkshot> How about every 5 people would add one more prism to the bag?
14:45:09 <Linkshot> Not really, Tarbomb
14:45:15 <tarbomb> There has to be a limit of sorts
14:45:18 <Linkshot> It would in Realm because of the handy dandy quest marker.
14:45:23 <Linkshot> But in Grid, you have to have a scout.
14:45:52 <tarbomb> How about this? First 5 people = +1 prism. Next 10 people = +2 prism. Next 20 people, etc, etc.
14:46:32 <tarbomb> And as for quest markers, trying to clear to a town already offsets this to some extent. Remember that people tend to cluster in big groups in godlands too, even without a quest marker
14:46:50 <Linkshot> We'll iron out the numbers when we get a grasp on how populated the game will get.
14:47:12 <Linkshot> Gods are different, though.
14:47:22 <Linkshot> Gods don't give Pulchs (Exas in Realm's case)
14:47:41 <tarbomb> Actually, I think that the loot boosts should be in shards and not in prisms.
14:47:52 <Linkshot> Should boost everything.
14:47:53 <tarbomb> Shards are an ultimately cooperative form of loot.
14:47:58 <Linkshot> But Pulchs require more people to get that +1
14:48:02 <tarbomb> How about a random boost?
14:48:17 <Linkshot> Every 5 = extra roll on one random loot piece?
14:48:18 <Linkshot> Sure.
14:48:28 <tarbomb> 50% shard boost, 30% lens boost, 20% prism boost. Or something like that.
14:48:45 <Linkshot> Oh, like for a shard thing?
14:49:02 <tarbomb> Sort of like a lootbooster in realm.
14:49:18 <Linkshot> I could get behind this.
14:49:21 <Linkshot> More people = more shards
14:49:25 <tarbomb> Or instead of the hard 5 person threshold, make it a soft one.
14:49:29 <Linkshot> More shards = more loot boosters being made
14:50:15 <tarbomb> say, teaming up with n person in a set boosts your loot by a factor of log n / log 5
14:50:44 <tarbomb> reduces the effect of massive trains a bit, but doesn't punish people for electing to go in smaller groups
Encourage grouping, make loot more interesting in groups, etc.