Possible Zeta Strategies

[hypevosa]

How much damage does that structure cone do? It's flat, not a percentage, right? The idea of escaping with reverse blinks is good though.

[quicklite]

I did a lot of testing in a zeta I saw (and subsequently lost all my prisms >_>), and I figured out quite a few pretty cool things, and quite a few possible strategies with a few tanks. I'll list what I found out, and the strategies that I think could work, a bit later today.

[gingerbear]

Last Zeta fight was quite the disaster: we had some hercs and the others were predators and corsairs... we managed to take down about 4 of the outer towers.

Errors:
- Not enough DPS. To me it seems that the towers aren't just going down fast enough. More Hornet/Spectre should be used, assuming we can distract the bombs to short range.
- Bad distraction. We kind of went in randomly, and from two-three different angles. The result was that even the distracters had to pay attention to each other's bomb pulls, which made the whole procedure clunky, and left the rest of the team inefficient at their offense. Moreover, everyone "going in" was also kind of random, which resulted in countless deaths. If we add that these bombs have a bit too big of an AoE, things are even seem to be worse.

I know I was sitting in a Herc and tried to get between buildings to pull bombs there, so the "outer" area remained relatively safe to attack, but this has been disasterous for the ones that followed me, and also quite dangerous for me and for the ones who did the same from the counter direction, because we ended up in each others' mine pulls.

---

At this moment, I really think with that small community and that small organization we won't likely put up a good fight against zetas, and will lose more than we gain. Will see how things fare with more firepower or more "trained together" people. (Although if something needs more firepower to be solved it is bad from the start, and I won't expect trained armies once the game gets popular and is flooded with with the young weenies. :/ )

[hypevosa]

One of the reasons I have shear the sheep being corsairs just all driving straight through is to avoid uncoordinated in and out assaults.

Hercs (individuals or in pairs) should probably just circle individual facilities (or maybe groups of 2 or 3) to distract, whatever would get them just out of the AOE so they can not worry about getting hit with bombs, while constantly distracting the bomb tossers.

[Ood]

Warning, wall of text imminent

If you assume the following about the hornet:
Number of overdrive shots: 5
Damage of overdrive shots: 278 (this is a BASE number)
No prisms, no augments.
And this about the Hercules:
Number of bombs able to lay in time it takes Hornet to overdrive: 4 *
Damage per bomb: 300
* Measured by, first shot of hornet overdrive 1 to first shot of hornet overdrive 2.

This gives you:
278*5 = 1390 damage per hornet overdrive on hornet
300*4 = 1200 damage per hornet overdrive on hercules

Wait: 190 more damage isn't much, I agree. However, the damage calculated for the hornet is base. Augments and prisms can greatly affect the damage output.

With pulch cooldown prisms, and 10 cooldown augment, I count 6 shots per overdrive. Add this with damage pulch and 10 damage augment you get:
403*6 = 2418 damage per hornet overdrive on hornet
In a cooldown region with the same setup as above, 9 shots are possible,
403*9 = 3627 damage per hornet overdrive on hornet
In a damage region with same setup (6 shots).
542*6 = 3252 damage per hornet overdrive on hornet

Testing also shows that you can shear 1 time per hornet overdrive so for corsair:
1500*1 = 1500 damage per hornet overdrive on corsair

So, a breakdown of the 3 best options as of now, in terms of hornet overdrives (hod):
Hercules - 1200 damage/hod
Hornet (base) - 1390 damage/hod
Corsair - 1500 damage/hod
Hornet (pulched, 10 auged) - 2418 damage/hod
Hornet (pulched, 10 auged, damage region) - 3252 damage/hod
Hornet (pulched, 10 auged, cooldown region) - 3627 damage/hod

An important note: These are all to 1 target.
If hercules hits 3 zeta pieces per bomb, damage jumps to 3600 damage/hod.
If corsair hits 3 zeta pieces per shear, damage jumps to 4500 damage/hod.

Second important note, corsair can suicide shear (trigger cooldown resets on death) and use an anchor to easily multiply its damage. This is less feasible with herc/hornet.

Long, long story short.
If you want to keep your prisms:
Start with a herc, try to get 3 or more targets per bomb, create a sight line to Main Zeta free of bombs. Finish the Main Zeta with hornets once there is a sight line free of bomb distractions.

Alternatives:
Hornet the whole time (works best in cooldown region).

If you don't care about prisms:
Suicide shear.

Take home message:
Co-ordinate with group, start with something like 1:4 hornet:herc (depending on group size). Have hercs try to get as many targets as possible in bomb range, let hornets finish off weak Zeta bits. Focus on creating a line of sight for the hornets that is free from bombing. Once safe line of sight is established, all switch to hornet, kill main Zeta. (suicide shears can use horneters as an anchor)
To loot on hornet, reverse charge, and blink onto loot, then nexus.

[hypevosa]

I assume you're advocating the lower DPS of the herc to the corsair for safety reasons?

[Ood]

Mainly, yes, hype.
I've not been able to do many (only 1 actually) zetas, but from that it seemed that the hercules CAN take a bit of the zeta's punishment when it is at full health/shield. Given corsair's very weak side shield, I don't see it happening as easily.

[Kelsoo]

With the Zetas that I have been able to test, I have found out more of their patterns.

I suggest using a Phantom or something that can stay alive to practice more on them and figure out different strategies. The main I have found is if you dive in first to the Zeta, circle the middle facilities in a sort of 8 fashion, they won't be able to keep up with you and you can do effective damage.

Now the main problem with this is the fact that if you circle to close or not precise you will slowly be torn at and may have to Orgin. The good news is that you'll almost never be in danger of instant death, and you can escape with ease as long as you have decent speed, not having to Orgin if you time it right.

Considering the Hornet strat is going out the window, it will become vital to discover more ways to effectively do a Zeta. Unless you have someone that can safely copy what you're doing I highly suggest you choose a side no one is on, or go in one at a time.

Reading on Ood's post with how much damage a Herc can do, one can safely circle like I stated previously, the facilities directly outside you become a tank that doesn't even need to tank.

So you first go in and start the initial bomb whilst circling, after the bomb blows, wait until you have not taken a hit for about 3 seconds then immediately disarm allowing your shields to get a slight regen depending on how long you can go, by now you should have another bomb ready with only a 10 second delay this now turns into a deadly pattern for the Zeta.

With proper circling in 8's and a bit of luck probably, you can get off 2 bombs again before disarming, your +1000 point shield (with pulches + least a 7+ shield aug) As well as your 1560 HP (1160 without Quantum Reigon) (10 aug, 2 HP Pulch) you should be able to last the ~30(?) seconds it takes for your disarm to recharge whilst also inflicting major damage to the Zeta and it's facilities.

If you ever start taking major punishment Herc has the speed and health to choose either A) Circle in perfection and activate health regen or B) On your outer circle run out (not towards your teamates)and regen.

And the added benefit of being able to get your loot with much more safety.

[Ood]

Kelsoo.
1. Speed is irrelevant, all tanks have the same speed, prisms are more important.
2. The problem with everyone playing a herc or phantom, or anything else is that there isn't enough room for enough people to do this.
3. Hornets CAN kill it, if everyone cooperates, and they can get loot also, if you have trouble looting on a hornet, drive in reverse, you can blink that way.
4. Either way, cooperation is a must. Hornets are pretty easy to coordinate (everyone just stay the hell out of range). Hercs are NOT.
5. Phantom is good in theory... But I'd rather someone just get in a damn hornet.
6. If you want a more foolproof strategy... get an anchor (copy paste /goto ___) and suicide shear.

[Kelsoo]

Ood.

1) Was not aware of that thanks.

2) Usually everyone avoids going close to it anyways and there should be ample room for different circlers, though this is a problem I am aware of.

3 and beyond. I never said Hornets were not able to kill it, though it is dangerous getting loot if others are dragging or just being ding dongs. But the Hornet strat is going to be removed, along with the incentive to suicide shear which is why I say we need to find other ways to kill it off.

Anyways, I agree and the biggest problem is coordinating but as of now no one will go anywhere near the inside of a Zeta unless it's for loot, and with the few amount of people it could possibly work.

[Ood]

Why is the hornet strategy going to be removed?

[Kelsoo]

Shooting at things that don't shoot back as a final boss.

[rob]

Kelsoo is right...strategies that involve shooting at things from outside of their range are boring, and I don't want to encourage boring things. So I'll either cap the maximum range you can have, or increase the range of the Zeta bomb toss.

[gingerbear]

Jul 28, 2013 14:22:38 GMT -5 rob said:

Kelsoo is right...strategies that involve shooting at things from outside of their range are boring, and I don't want to encourage boring things. So I'll either cap the maximum range you can have, or increase the range of the Zeta bomb toss.

Or you could remove hornet entirely. I mean... what's the point?

[fsm]

Currently all tanks that do not have lots of shield or are the hornet are useless/suicide to use against a zeta.

If you nerf hornet range you will need to completely redesign it.