Tank Balance Mega Thread (UPDATED 12/27/14 - Ideas)

[Will]

Level 0-1 Tank Unlocks

Tank: Silver

Stats:
Silver Stats

Status: (OP? UP? Balanced?)
The Silver is fine where it is, it is supposed to be a bad tank anyways
Okay, after watching new players struggle to advance in the game and quit after being started with this tank, I have kind of changed my mind about this tank. It needs more shields. 100 strength shields? That's kinda mean lol. If you're a new player and you come into the game and just get insta-killed because you're stuck playing the squishiest tank in the game that does no damage then I can't blame you for quitting. Maybe buff the shields?



Tank: Mustang

Stats:
Mustang Stats

Status: (OP-ish? UP? Balanced?)
If it were anything, it would be OP. It is yet to see if this tank will be the new Viking, a tank that newer players play on because it is reliable and powerful.


Tank: Valkyrie

Stats:
Valk Stats

Status: (OP? UP? Balanced?)
The Valk has decent power, but the issue with it is that its shotgun seems to shoot in random places so you do essentially no damage 70% of the time. This could be easily remedied by making the shotgun on the Valk only shoot forwards, making the Valk a very useful tank. If this change were to be implemented, I would suggest a nerf on the shotgun from 40 damage to 35 damage per shot.


Tank: Spectre

Stats:
Spectre Stats

Status: (OP? UP? Balanced?)
The Spectre has nearly the same issues as the Valk. It aims at random things. Of course, the Spectre has great range and does a ton of damage, so it's great for voys when fully modded. I think this tank is in the right place.


Tank: Avenger

Stats:
Avenger Stats

Status: (OP? UP? Balanced?)



Tank: Trailblazer

Stats:
Trailblazer Stats

Status: (OP? UP? Balanced?)
The Trailblazer is a surfing and scouting tank. It works, no changes needed.


Tank: Predator

Stats:
Predator Stats

Status: (OP? UP-ish? Balanced?)
Predator is a balanced tank that does decent damage while having okay shield strength. I think it's fine where it is although it could use a minor buff. So I guess kinda UP. The shield placement is what makes me say UP. Perhaps have more shields in the back or something like that.


Tank: Phantom

Stats:
Phantom Stats

Status: (OP? UP? Balanced?)
The ultimate noob tank, has quite possibly the best survivability in the game, and has decent CC. Good tank, it should stay where it is.


Level 2 Tank Unlocks


Tank: Hurricane

Stats:
Hurricane Stats

Status: (OP? UP? Balanced?)
I understand that this tank is supposed to have great CC, but there are a lot of tanks that do this better and have better suvivability than the Hurricane: Hercules, Kraken, Mustang, Thunderbolt, Cutlass, and on and on and on... point is this tank needs more damage with its lightning and the heal gun it has should also heal the Hurricane if the shields are to remain as poorly placed and weak as they are.


Tank: Hercules

Stats:
Hercules Stats

Status: (OP? UP? Balanced?)
This tank has an awesome first trigger that I love to use and the shield is great because it recharges so quickly. A well balanced tank that has great CC and survivability.


Tank: Wolverine

Stats:
Wolverine Stats

Status: (OP? UP? Balanced-ish?)
Has great all-around coverage with its shields and guns, not too useful in the sense that it has a great strength in any one area though.


Tank: Hornet

Stats:
Hornet Stats

Status: (OP? UP? Balanced?)
A perfect example of a perfectly balanced tank. The Hornet, while having terrible shields, deals the most damage in the game and can snipe convoys from far away with its trigger. The Hornet is the best example of a tank with huge positives that are justly countered by huge negatives. Bowsie and the legend Ood used this thing all the time but people just don't know how to use it. Good tank with a high learning curve. This is a tank that the game just wouldn't be the same without its existence in the game.


Tank: Viking

Stats:
Viking Stats

Status: (OP? UP? Balanced?)
Another powerful tank that is trigger-dependent on its damage but does it close range as opposed to long range like the Hornet. The Viking is perfect where it is. No changes needed.


Tank: Fury

Stats:
Fury Stats

Status: (OP? UP? Balanced?)
A tank with great survivability and decent damage, the Fury is a unique tank that has great CC abilities and great triggers. The Fury is where it should be.



Level 3 Tank Unlocks

Tank: Paladin

Stats:
Paladin Stats

Status: (OP? UP? Balanced?)
I have never played this tank. I would love some input from you guys.

Tank: Corsair

Stats:
Corsair Stats

Status: (OP? UP? Balanced?)


Tank: Wildfire

Stats:
Wildfire Stats

Status: (OP? UP? Balanced?)


Tank: Minotaur

Stats:
Minotaur Stats

Status: (OP? UP? Balanced?)


Tank: Guardian

Stats:
Guardian Stats

Status: (OP? UP? Balanced?)



Level 4 Tank Unlocks

Tank: Cutlass

Stats:
Cutlass Stats

Status: (OP? UP? Balanced?)
The Cutlass has the most powerful gun in the entire game by about 50 damage fully auged and modded, has CC for days, and shields at 635 each when fully modded. If anyone can tell me that this isn't OP, then they should probably check their honesty at the door because this thing outclasses almost any tank in the game for shields and it can cloak to regen shields and also has a trigger for it. A nerf? Rob, if you were gonna nerf something, this would be the first thing I would suggest.

Tank: Kraken

Stats:
Kraken Stats

Status: (OP? UP? Balanced?)


Tank: Vindicator

Stats:
Vindicator Stats

Status: (OP? UP? Balanced?)


Tank: Scorpion

Stats:
Scorpion Stats

Status: (OP? UP? Balanced?)



Level 5 Tank Unlocks

Tank: Thunderbolt

Stats:
Thunderbolt Stats

Status: (OP? UP? Balanced?)
Without mods the Tbolt is not too great. With mods, the Tbolt can shred through nearly anything with great efficiency.


Tank: Dragon

Stats:
Dragon Stats

Status: (OP? UP? Balanced?)
The Dragon is an OP tank when fully modded, and is above average when not modded at all. It has a very long invulnerability trigger w/ good AoE damage from its 1st trigger.


I guess when you look at whether or not a tank is OP, you also have to look to what it is supposed to do and what level tank unlock it is as well. Obviously level 4-5 tanks should be better than level 1-2 tanks. There is a risk/reward factor here. The best solution for tanks that I marked OP is not to necessarily nerf them but to move them up in terms of tank unlock level. The Mustang should get moved to 3 or 4 as an example of a possible balance to how powerful it is. Tanks that are support should be at most level 2 unlocks. The Guardian, Paladin, Scorpion, Vindicator are all examples of tanks that should be moved down in terms of tank unlock level. The Dragon and Tbolt are level 5 tank unlocks so they should stay where they are. Yes they are OP, but the cost of dying with either is high so the reward should be as well. The Cutlass is too powerful in general and would be even if it were moved up to being a level 5 tank unlock.

Ideas for buffs/nerfs/changes

Silver - Shields 2,3,4 buffed to 200 each. Regen rates stay the same, buff hitpoints on Silver to 500

Mustang - Side shields (1 and 2) nerfed to 250, decrease the amount of buff that the overdrive gives

Valkyrie - Lower regen delay on Valkyrie's back shield to 4 seconds, nerf shotgun to 35 damage but increase range and fire rate on it. It seems that the shotgun doesn't shoot when it's in range. What I mean by this is that the spread of the shots that the shotgun shoots go farther than what the range on the shotgun is. This really doesn't make sense to me. I would increase range on shotgun to 2000 and then increase fire rate so that the shotgun shoots every .9 seconds. Also, the 4th trigger is seemingly useless, not sure what the point of it is. I suggest a 4th trigger that changes the shotgun to slug mode. Slug mode is a single shot that has 2500 range but ONLY shoots straight, think of the 1st trigger on the Scorpion. Upon impact, the slug explodes and deals splash damage. Base damage would be 45 with a shot every 1 second. Scatterblast damage mods DO apply. Of course, there is no auto target, so you have to aim the tank. This adds a nice learning curve to the tank

Avenger - I mean, the tank could use some help on the shields Rob. 8 seconds? I don't understand why any tank has to deal with that. I know it's supposed to be a voy tank, but that kind of delay is just cruel. Yes, the tank can be modded for stronger shields, but does it matter when they are never up? Maybe 6 seconds would be better. I dunno.

Predator - I don't understand this tank at all. Someone please help me. (aesc? Zed?)

Hurricane - Eh, the Hurricane is okay on second thought. Don't bother.

Wolverine - the Wolverine is okay power-wise, just not very unique. I don't have any ideas for this tank yet but I'll suggest some later and maybe you'll like them or take some inspiration from them.

Viking - This tank does an incredible amount of damage. I feel like the shields are a little too weak now though because of the way that regions have been setup. I mean, you can't really use the viking in a red region anymore. I guess maybe a nerf to the damage and a buff to the shields would be great because this tank falls short in the defense department and right now defense is something that tanks need to have in this game with the increased penalty upon death.

Minotaur - I feel like this tank is completely out of its element. Rob, this tank needs help. It can't clear anything. I mean, the minions just slowly kill you when you try to clear with it and it really doesn't have any use besides for region bosses but of course there's always Dragon which is much better for region bosses and better in every way. This tank needs more shields, more CC, and a longer invulnerability period.

Kraken - The back shield is terrible and it completely overshadows any kind of potential this tank would have. Even with mods, as Zed said, this tank is sub-par. It's a level 4 tank unlock and should perform like one. The back shield needs a serious buff to something like 200.

Vindicator - This tank no longer works in the framework of this game. The whole "the lower the hp, the more the damage on trigger 1" thing is no longer something that works because of the HP registering issues. I mean, if you can't judge how much hp you have then you just die trying to use this tank. There has to be some way for this tank to be useful without making it so risky to use. The mechanic you had before was great but the whole town exploit kinda ruined it. This tank is a good concept but needs some more revision. I'm dry of ideas for now.

Scorpion - I didn't understand the nerf on this tank the day it was nerfed. No one uses it anymore now, and for good reason. It is squishy as hell. It has no use at all as far as I'm concerned. I don't know what this tank is supposed to be used for anyways so I can't really suggest a buff for now but I know it needs one badly.

NOTE:

I noticed that there are a lot of great concepts that you used for tanks and they just seem to be randomly put on each tank. Setting things on fire (Fury, Valkyrie, Wolverine) is a great concept but I feel like there should be a specific tank that does ONLY that and not a few that can KIND OF do that. You know what I mean? Like, each tank should have something that makes them unique besides the Silver. The Valk has a shotgun, the Dragon is a weird but effective trigger-based CC monster, the Tbolt is the ultimate all-around tank, the Hornet is a true Sniper with the best range and damage in the game for voys (Even better than the likes of Tbolt and MAYBE Spectre, not sure though), The Hurricane is a CC beast that can heal and shoot down missiles, etc. Each tank should be focused on completing one task (or multiple in the Thunderbolt's case) but should do so in a unique way, different from other tanks. I will come up with ideas for all of this because I understand that this game is still in alpha and that the work should be focused on making the enemies more unique but I'm sure that eventually the issue of tank uniqueness will eventually be raised and perhaps I and other testers can think of good ideas for how to make each tank unique but not overly complex.






I will add more tanks later.

I will edit status later when I reach a verdict

[Deleted]

I think it would be probably be better just to post the link (i.e. www.redblobgames.com/x/jetbolt/viewer/#tankdef-68).

I feel that Silver is just too underpowered. I know it's *supposed* to be bad, but if feel if someone was playing Grid12 for the first time with nobody else on, it would be extremely demoralising. It is simply too frustrating to clear with. The tank-unlock rework didn't help either: they drop at an 0.5% chance from fortresses. It takes an eternity to find those first few tank unlocks, especially if you are unlucky with droprates. I would never use Silver again after unlocking Mustang.

I remember even Fire used complain about how bad his fully-modded Silver was compared to other tanks. (He still got it to level 130 though, so...)


I know this isn't related to tank balance, but I feel that new players should be have some sort of starting buff. Maybe a full set of auroral prisms and a 1 hour buff.

[amitp]

I'd rather not think of the Silver as “underpowered” or “overpowered”.

I'd rather think of the power as a combination of the tank and the player's skill.

I'd like other tanks to be more powerful when you are skilled enough to harness their power, but that Silver is more powerful when you're not that skilled. That way, for new players, Silver really is the best choice. You can unlock other tanks, but you're better off playing Silver until you gain some skill. For skilled players, Silver is the worst choice. You should unlock other tanks and play those instead.

However I don't know if there's enough skill differential to make this kind of thing feasible.

[gingerbear]

I'd appretiate if you used links instead of huge ass images like Cardz suggested as the latter will only scare people away.

Anyway...

I only have a suggestion for valkyre now but want to see what this thread will look like first before posting.

[fire]

before the tank death update i thought silver definitely needed a buff. not so much now due to no penalty in comparison to other tanks. you can survive on it as long as you have a group to play with, and as long as you are prismed/modded you will definitely be fine soloing in green areas. and thanks alot amitp, are you trying to say i have no skill? ;/ only other tanks i can really judge is minotaur and mustang. minotaur is probably ok where its at. i think with the addition of the shield slots it wont feel quite as underpowered against minions, though i have yet to test that. mustang is.....op. only tank i could solo clear with 0 problems before threat levels were implemented.

[amitp]

fire: well, I'm not saying that's the way it is now … I'm just saying that's how I'd want it to be

*I* have no skill … I bet I'm less skilled than any of you.

[Deleted]

It would be nice to make it so that higher level tanks have a higher skill cap or more potential. The problem is that most of the skill in this game is based on knowledge or decisions. I can't think of any 'advanced' mechanics other than rotating and maybe getting your Thunderbolt to aim at the right target. So, er, give the Silver a weak one-piece shield with slow recharge but no recharge delay...?

In my opinion, many of the tanks right now have at least some situational use/niche. However, the different strengths of tanks are unevenly weighted. For example, damage-dealing solo clearing tanks such as Mustang, Predator and Thunderbolt are considered much better than tanks that fulfill one particular role in a group, such as Hurricane (crowd control) or Paladin (healing). Unless those tanks are changed drastically or the population of Grid12 suddenly explodes, they will continue to be rarely used.

[Will]

I'm gonna bump this thread because apparently updating a thread doesn't bump it for some reason. Not use to that but whatever. I'll the rest of the tanks when I have time to I'm just giving you guys a quick update. Please discuss what you think of my analysis of each tank and tell me if you think a tank is in the wrong place. What I mean by that is I want you to tell me if I'm wrong about something being UP or OP or Balanced and please state most importantly WHY because I haven't realy played all the tanks too much and I'd much rather have an opinion from someone who mained whatever tank we are discussing. (example: I'd much rather hear Crunchtime's opinion on the Predator in terms of whether or not it's OP and what strengths the Predator may have. Remember, even if someone mains a tank this still doesn't mean that the tank isn't UP. fire's Silver, fire's Minotaur, aesc's Valkyrie, Duco's Hurricane, and the list goes on and on. Sometimes people like to challenge themselves, aesc being a good example of one of those people. He uses tanks that no one else uses like the Valkyrie, which he inspired me to play, the Vindicator which I am yet to discuss, the Spectre, and the Wolverine. These tanks are rarely seen, and the issue I have with aesc is that he is very skilled at the game so he thinks nearly every tank in the game is good. I want some opinions from the average players or newer players as they are always the majority. I would consider myself maybe above average, so I consider myself decently qualified to make some opinions on what's OP or UP)

[Deleted]

Oh my god the font size.

Mustang: There isn't too much wrong with the tank itself. It just doesn't seem to fit in with the power levels of the other level 1 tanks. If you wanted to rebalance the Mustang without a straight nerf to damage, you could try making the main forward gun target ground units only, so that the tank is even worse against convoys, patrols and certain fortresses, while retaining its strength of clearing quickly.

Valkyrie: This tank used to be pretty good for general clearing. It has good front shields with a very short recharge delay, and quite high (theoretical) dps. However, although the scatterblast gun looks good on paper, it has two problems: it is easily distracted and hard to aim, and deals pitiful damage to targets that aren't right next to the tank. With the recent difficulty increases to fortresses such as novas, the Valkyrie is now almost completely outclassed by the Mustang.
What I think should be done is to make the scatterblast gun a consistent 35/40 dps at all ranges, and to instead change the +scatterblast mods to +laser damage/RoF. This would allow the the Valkyrie to do much more consistent damage while fulfilling its intended role of crowd control.

Avenger: ...What's wrong with Avenger? Its shields are somewhat lacking despite the recharge trigger. Its guns definitely aren't as bad as you say. They have 60 dps and an overdrive but somewhat short range. However, you seem to have forgotten the main purpose of the tank, and that is to paralyze and stun a convoy. The low shields and short range aren't a problem when you are able to point blank a non-moving, non-shooting target. I think the reason Avengers are rarely seen is because they are meant to function in groups. It's for the same reason that tanks like the Paladin are underused.

Predator: The Predator, Mustang and Valkyrie are the three level 1 clearing tanks. They each do their job well, and each tank has its own strengths. At an unmodded level, the Predator does seem to be slightly underpowered compared to those two though. Perhaps some sort of shield buff? I would also suggest changing one of the trigger mods to a shield strength mod.

Phantom: Personally, I don't really like playing the 'circular' tanks (Phantom, Wolverine and Fury). They lack focused damage, which I guess is also their strength. From what I've seen, the Phantom is a great tank for newbs when they are still dieing a lot. It is indeed very survivable, to the point of arguably outclassing the Trailblazer at scouting, and I'd consider it one of the most balanced tanks.

Hurricane: Adding an anti-missile gun won't save this tank. It is too lacking in damage to be useful, even in a group. It contributes very little compared to many other tanks, such as the ones mentioned in the OP. Its horrible shields don't help. Applying mods to the shield recharge cooldown allows probably infinite sustain, but why would you bother?

Hercules: This tank is pretty balanced. It has a fantastic shield and is probably your best bet for clearing green regions without modded tanks. It has low growth potential though, as its main source of damage does not scale at all. If one of its mod stats was a buff to the bomb damage/cooldown, I could see a lot of people maining it.

Wolverine: I'm not quite sure what the Wolverine does better than the Phantom. More damage in return for less survivability? Its mods give it potential for much more damage than the Phantom.

Hornet: I actually think this tank is the easiest tank to get started on convoys. Even without its front shields, it is quite forgiving with an instant retreat and heal. All you need to do is move in a constant speed ahead of the convoy and use the second trigger whenever it's off cooldown. Applying some shield items might make it viable for clearing, but I highly doubt it would be as effective as the comparable Thunderbolt.

[rob]

I'm enjoying this discussion. Thanks!

[Will]

Dec 11, 2014 5:11:54 GMT -5 @cardz said:

Oh my god the font size.

Hurricane: Adding an anti-missile gun won't save this tank. It is too lacking in damage to be useful, even in a group. It contributes very little compared to many other tanks, such as the ones mentioned in the OP. Its horrible shields don't help. Applying mods to the shield recharge cooldown allows probably infinite sustain, but why would you bother?

Haha Cardz the worst thing about the Hurricane is that it DOES have an anti-missile gun. I mean, it's cool to have one but it has rare usage.

[Deleted]

Yeah, it has one, but it as far as I can tell, it has had no effect on the usage of the tank. It makes practically no difference. Missiles are only really dangerous when there are a large group of them, and the anti-missile gun isn't going to help you then.

[gingerbear]

Oh my god the font size, indeed.

My opinion:

Mustang is indeed a bit OP. It has two backsides: squishy in focused fire, and not really good against air. This makes it a balanced, good strong clearer and dungeon fighter. I would not change it, maybe raise tank level to 2 if it's outshining the others that much.

Valkyre should be a really good tank both in theory and practice, and Zed says it's pretty strong with modules. I don't have any modules, so I can't comment on it. I find the aiming AI pretty disheartening, and would be really happy if it would be wisened up a bit. In that case it would be a lot easier to play (it might take away from the charm) and would also be stronger (as the actual DPS would ramp up).

Avenger is perfectly fine. It struggles in minion-heavy environments and focus-fire, but it's pretty good for 1v1-ing harder towers or chasing convoys.

Predator is always being told as a pretty good clearing tank, but I never got the hang of it and never liked it much. I feel it is a bit underpowered, but since I'm obviously unskilled and uninterested in playing it, I don't think I would have any valuable contribution to it.

Phantom is a good tank if someone prefers survival and does not mind that they do absolutely crappy damage. I don't know how to change it without making it too strong, the current kit is fine, just a bit boring.

Hurricane is a fine tank, although a tiny bit weak. I like the Anti-Missle gun, although it only shines against the Butcher-class turret. I could see several options to buff this tank without getting it out of its style: a) buffing the Zapper so it could land several zaps at the same target if no alternative presents itself. Alternatively, make sure that enemies always consist of multiple zappable chunks and don't change the current behavior. b) make the Anti-missle gun shoot faster and with the ability to aim at other kinds of targets, for example straight line flying, non-following ball-bullets, mines, flying minions. (Any of tese options, not all of them.)

Hercules is also fine as it is. Good survivability and clearing efficiency, even if it is a bit slow. I agree with Cardz that if the 1st trigger gets some damage/CDR from a module it would make a pretty good scaling into late game. However, I'm perfectly fine the way it currently is, as it has a nice sinergy with single target DPS tanks (by getting rid of all those pesky minions) and thus promotes teamwork or at least teamplay. ("Enabler" class)

Wolverine was not a tank I liked at first, but after some time it feels pretty balanced. Not too strong, not too weak, you can feel like hopping on it if you are bored of whatever you are currently maining.

Hornet is a terrible tank if you want to clear. It lacks proper shielding and needs a really precise aiming to get things done. However, it is a pretty safe choice to siege subcommanders (or at least their outer perimeter) or to take down convoys. Once you manage to put on a vela shield (double vela or vela+pyxis are both fine builds), it becomes a lot safer, or at least you won't get 1-shot by most enemies in a wrong moment. Thus, I think Hornet is a fine tank but it definitely requires extra shields, skill, and of course proper role usage to be enjoyable. The only thing that really irks me is that it can have a range over the "loot range" and thus players can end up without any bounty after a well-deserved (and maybe long lasting) fight.

Paladin needs some love. Currently it is the twin of Avenger in convoy fight support role (stun + stop), but instead of dealing damage it focuses on healing allies. Which kind of falls behind, given the increased damage (mostly burst) the enemies put out. It's not really good at other positions, I would consider giving it better positioned/fragmented/buffed shields and/or a better healgun. Of course, this could be moot with the new shield drops and modules (I don't know which modules it has), but this tank can be a bit underwhelming as newly obtained.

I consider myself averagely skilled, focusing more on strategy and safe play, rather than adrenaline-pumping recklessness. This might shade my opinion on tanks and related game mechanics, don't judge me hard.

[Will]

Dec 12, 2014 15:37:03 GMT -5 gingerbear said:

Oh my god the font size, indeed.

My opinion:

Mustang is indeed a bit OP. It has two backsides: squishy in focused fire, and not really good against air. This makes it a balanced, good strong clearer and dungeon fighter. I would not change it, maybe raise tank level to 2 if it's outshining the others that much.

Valkyre should be a really good tank both in theory and practice, and Zed says it's pretty strong with modules. I don't have any modules, so I can't comment on it. I find the aiming AI pretty disheartening, and would be really happy if it would be wisened up a bit. In that case it would be a lot easier to play (it might take away from the charm) and would also be stronger (as the actual DPS would ramp up).

Avenger is perfectly fine. It struggles in minion-heavy environments and focus-fire, but it's pretty good for 1v1-ing harder towers or chasing convoys.

Predator is always being told as a pretty good clearing tank, but I never got the hang of it and never liked it much. I feel it is a bit underpowered, but since I'm obviously unskilled and uninterested in playing it, I don't think I would have any valuable contribution to it.

Phantom is a good tank if someone prefers survival and does not mind that they do absolutely crappy damage. I don't know how to change it without making it too strong, the current kit is fine, just a bit boring.

Hurricane is a fine tank, although a tiny bit weak. I like the Anti-Missle gun, although it only shines against the Butcher-class turret. I could see several options to buff this tank without getting it out of its style: a) buffing the Zapper so it could land several zaps at the same target if no alternative presents itself. Alternatively, make sure that enemies always consist of multiple zappable chunks and don't change the current behavior. b) make the Anti-missle gun shoot faster and with the ability to aim at other kinds of targets, for example straight line flying, non-following ball-bullets, mines, flying minions. (Any of tese options, not all of them.)

Hercules is also fine as it is. Good survivability and clearing efficiency, even if it is a bit slow. I agree with Cardz that if the 1st trigger gets some damage/CDR from a module it would make a pretty good scaling into late game. However, I'm perfectly fine the way it currently is, as it has a nice sinergy with single target DPS tanks (by getting rid of all those pesky minions) and thus promotes teamwork or at least teamplay. ("Enabler" class)

Wolverine was not a tank I liked at first, but after some time it feels pretty balanced. Not too strong, not too weak, you can feel like hopping on it if you are bored of whatever you are currently maining.

Hornet is a terrible tank if you want to clear. It lacks proper shielding and needs a really precise aiming to get things done. However, it is a pretty safe choice to siege subcommanders (or at least their outer perimeter) or to take down convoys. Once you manage to put on a vela shield (double vela or vela+pyxis are both fine builds), it becomes a lot safer, or at least you won't get 1-shot by most enemies in a wrong moment. Thus, I think Hornet is a fine tank but it definitely requires extra shields, skill, and of course proper role usage to be enjoyable. The only thing that really irks me is that it can have a range over the "loot range" and thus players can end up without any bounty after a well-deserved (and maybe long lasting) fight.

Paladin needs some love. Currently it is the twin of Avenger in convoy fight support role (stun + stop), but instead of dealing damage it focuses on healing allies. Which kind of falls behind, given the increased damage (mostly burst) the enemies put out. It's not really good at other positions, I would consider giving it better positioned/fragmented/buffed shields and/or a better healgun. Of course, this could be moot with the new shield drops and modules (I don't know which modules it has), but this tank can be a bit underwhelming as newly obtained.

I consider myself averagely skilled, focusing more on strategy and safe play, rather than adrenaline-pumping recklessness. This might shade my opinion on tanks and related game mechanics, don't judge me hard.

I feel like their are some tanks that benefit more than others do from modules. Of course, in my analysis of these tanks I aimed to judge them by their pre-modded state. That being said, Mustang is decently powerful without mods, and when fully modded up (like 4 level 5s or something) it is just amazingly powerful.

If you're doing it right, you're getting overdrive cooldown modules and foregun modules. The main gun alone with max augs and prisms does up to 114 DPS. Overcharge is reduced to an 18 second cooldown and you just recharge shields like nothing. Also, I think that rob should move up tanks like the Mustang and Valkyrie to higher levels of tank unlock.

[Deleted]

Dec 12, 2014 17:28:41 GMT -5 Will said:

I feel like their are some tanks that benefit more than others do from modules. Of course, in my analysis of these tanks I aimed to judge them by their pre-modded state. That being said, Mustang is decently powerful without mods, and when fully modded up (like 4 level 5s or something) it is just amazingly powerful.

This is a very important factor in which tanks are 'mained'.

For example, the Kraken is a very strong tank unmodded, with dps rivaling some modded tanks and heavy forward shields. But the mods for the Kraken are pretty useless. This definitely limits the amount of people that use it. Players generally want to have some progression as they play, and maining the Kraken allows for very little room to grow.
Contrast this with the Thunderbolt. After the nerfs, the Thunderbolt has rather bad guns at an unmodded level. However, as soon as you start to upgrade the gun damage, the tank starts to do a lot of work. The lightning damage mod hasn't been nerfed at all (it's still at x1.09), and it does more damage than you might expect. This growth potential encourages players to use this tank more, as its capabilities never fall behind.

Dec 12, 2014 15:37:03 GMT -5 gingerbear said:

Valkyrie should be a really good tank both in theory and practice, and Zed says it's pretty strong with modules. I don't have any modules, so I can't comment on it. I find the aiming AI pretty disheartening, and would be really happy if it would be wisened up a bit. In that case it would be a lot easier to play (it might take away from the charm) and would also be stronger (as the actual DPS would ramp up).

Valkyrie is quite strong unmodded. Maybe not as strong as Mustang, but good nonetheless.
I have +10 gun damage on Valkyrie, and sometimes the aiming can be quite annoying. The damage output is theoretically very high. The problem is that it deals much lower damage to targets I'm not sitting right on top of. Occasionally I wish the scatterblast gun was a laser, but usually I'm fine with clearing 5 minions in a single blast.
The fortress buffs mean that it can't risk hitting fortresses at point-blank range, so it's definitely not as good as it used to be. A change like I mentioned in my earlier post could be very interesting.